Talk:Aradia (goddess)
General Discussion
[edit]This is impossible, Lucifer was never part of the Roman mythology..!.-- The Warlock 05:37 25 Jun 2003 (UTC)
- moved from article
The information above [in the article --M ] is incorrect.
There was never a goddess named Herodias that was worshipped since the Middle Ages. The Canon Episcopi initiated the belief that heretics BELIEVED that Diana was a goddess. But never was the claim made that these heretics worshipped Diana.
The Canon Episcopi was followed by the Tractatus de Strigibus and then the Tractatus de Hereticis et Sortilegiis. Both of the tractatī merely quoted the Canon Episcopi.
The name Aradia never appeared in written form until C. G. Leland's publication of the book entitled Aradia, or the Gospel of the Witches in 1890.
It should also be noted that since "Aradia" never appeared in written form until Leland's publication, Leland is therefore the first to suggest that "Aradia" is corruption of "Herodias". There isn't any historical justification for this connection.
I've heard it suggested that the daughter of Artemis and Phosporus might've been named "Hera-Dea", though I doubt there's anything to this other than a modern neo-Pagan legend.
It would also be nice to see some information on the Malandanti and the Benandanti, especially in reference to the tractati. --Corvun 18:57, 5 Oct 2004 (UTC)
Should Lucifer really link to Phosporus? —Ashley Y 04:42, Jan 19, 2004 (UTC)
The figure of Lucifer from Isaiah 14:12 was never part of ancient Roman mythology. However, Lucifer or Lucifero became a figure in Italian folklore due to the influence of Catholicism.
The ancient Roman goddess Diana did survive in later Italian folklore as Fata Diana and Diana, queen of the witches.
Incidentally, the Roman Empress Faustina in the 2nd century ce honored the goddess Diana under the name DIANA LVCIFERA or "Diana Luciferia." The name "Luciferia" was a feminine form of the Latin title "Lucifer" meaning "light-bearer." Apparently the aspect of "Diana Lucifera" was similar to "Diana Lucia," as their names basically mean the same thing.
The Italian form of "Herodias" is "Erodiade." It is possible that "Aradia" is a corruption of "Erodiade." It is a feature of Italian folklore that Erodiade flew in the night ride of Diana and participated in the night assembly. It is also an Italian 19th century folk tradition that voices cried, "Mother, Mother..." and "Daughter, daughter..." as Erodiade flew across the sky. For more information about the connection between Aradia and Italian legends of Herodias/Erodiade, see Sabina Magliocco's article, "Who was Aradia? The History and Development of a Legend" (2002) Pomegranate: The Journal of Pagan Studies.
Leland's identification of the mythological Lilith with the biblical Herodias is more problematical. Leland speculated that Lilith was a goddess and Herodias was one of Lilith's titles and the biblical Herodias was named after her. There probably isn't any historical justification for this connection in spite of Leland's speculations.
Lilith was a winged Mesopotamian storm demon. In Semitic lore, Lilith was a night demon; in the bible (Isaiah 34:14) Lilith was associated with the screech owl. In later Italian folklore, Herodias (Erodiade) flew through the air upon a lightning bolt in the night storms around St. John's Eve.
Leland does not mention any of the above points in his book. These points could be used as evidence for arguing a similarity between Herodias and Lilith. Leland probably was aware that Lilith was depicted as winged. Leland was certainly aware of legends about Herodias (Erodiade) flying at night in June storms.
The speculation that the name Aradia is really Greek, not Latin or Italian, and stems from "Hera-Dea" may simply be "modern neo-Pagan legend" as suggested by Corvun above.
It has also been speculated that the name "Aradia" is an Italian combine name. "Ara" means "altar" and "dia" could be short for "Diana" or another spelling of "dea" meaning "goddess." Hence, "Aradia" could mean "altar of Diana" or "altar of the Goddess."
I want to respond directly to this comment: "There was never a goddess named Herodias that was worshipped since the middle ages. The Canon Epsiscopi initiated the belief that heretics BELIEVED that Diana was a goddess. But never was the claim made that these heretics worshipped Diana."
If you read Buchard of Worms' Decretum (compiled in the 11th century), it stated: "Have you believed or have you shared a superstition to which some wicked women claim to have given themselves, instruments of Satan, fooled by diabolical phantasms? During the night, with Diana, the pagan goddess, in the company of a crowd of other women, they ride the backs of animals, traversing great distances during the silence of the deep night, obeying Diana's orders as their mistress and putting themselves at her service during certain specified nights. If only these sorceresses could die in their impiety without dragging many others into their loss. Fooled into error, many people believe that these rides of Diana really exist. Thus they leave the true faith and fall into pagan error in believing that a god or goddess can exist besides the only God." (Translation by Geoffrey G. Koziol, University of Berkeley Translations)
There are two types of heretics described in Buchard's passage.
Type 1 heretics are those who believe that some women participate in the night ride of "Diana, the pagan goddess." The belief itself, in the folklore about women flying with Diana, is a heresy.
Type 2 heretics are those women who claim that they have flown with "Diana, the pagan goddess." Supposedly, these women believed they were "...obeying Diana's orders as their mistress and putting themselves at her service..."
This passage implied these women were offering worship through service to "Diana, the pagan goddess." In Christian monotheistic theology, service may be offered only to the Christian God. Offering service to another "spirit" or to obey the commands of another spirit was to offer fealty to a master other than the Lord God, master and heavenly king.
Folklore1 (talk) 01:19, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
In the medieval paradigm, service to another spirit was offering worship to another spiritual being rather than the one true God. That reasoning is why the women who professed and believed that they had attended the night assembly or night ride lead by a spirit were heretics. These women offered worship and service to the leader of the night assembly or night ride.
The benandanti in Italy were also often convicted of heresy for professing and believing that they flew at night in service to a spirit or saint. Folklore1 (talk) 02:22, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
"Syncreto-Paganism"
[edit]I think that this is more-or-less a neologism (by Isaac Bonewits?). It gets 567 hits, counting Wikipedia and places like "vampyre.com". I'd suggest that we should avoid using it even if it weren't, as it implies that there is something about 'Aradia' that is closer to Voodoo or Santeria than to Romanticism or modern Neopaganism, which is just misleading.
Reverting. (This was me Jkelly 18:44, 13 October 2005 (UTC))
- Please cease this activity at once. You are obviously a troll attempting to disrupt Wikipedia with inflammatory edits, false information, and ludicrous comments (such as "implies that there is something about 'Aradia' that is closer to Voodoo or Santeria than to Romanticism or modern Neopaganism, which is just misleading"). Your attempts to weaken the credibility of Wikipedia (as if it needs your help) are not appreciated, and if they continue, you will be reported. If trolling and stirring up trouble is how you get your kicks, I suggest getting them somewhere else. --Corvun 21:20, 13 September 2005 (UTC)
- According to the Wikipedia article on Paganism, 'Syncreto-Pagan' is defined as Syncreto-Paganism: A culture, which has been conquered but adopts and merges the conquering culture's religious practices with their own. This includes Haitian Vodou, and Santería. It isn't obvious to me why you prefer that description for Stregheria. Can you explain why you, who I'd guess has a great deal of interest in this subject, feel that this is a better descriptor? (This was also me Jkelly 18:44, 13 October 2005 (UTC))
Distribution of Gospel of Diana
[edit]Kelly sent the text out as a plaintext file on the old PODS net. Magliocco may well have gotten her copy on a compact disc; Kelly had been selling CDs of his collective writings from his website (which I can't seem to find now) for a while. It's a minor point, but I'd prefer removing "CD" -- Kelly's collections certainly weren't available on CD in '92. We may as well leave out "online" as well, since it is likely to confuse the reader. How about just "document"? Jkelly 17:13, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
- Fine. I must apologise for saying that I'd changed the text from "privately printed online" – words you never wrote. I was switching between this text and Magliocco article which calls it a "privately published electronic document", and ended up traducing both your words and Magliocco's. Magliocco certainly implies she had access to a CD (she says "disk"), which would make sense of the phrase "privately published". "Distributed online" is better, but "and on CD" could be added – if anyone thinks it important. Paul B 17:40, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
How Many on Aradia?
[edit]I'd originally set out to see about expanding Charge of Aradia as discussed on the Neopaganism WikiProject page, when I began looking at how many places this same subject is discussed. There is this page, Aradia, as well as Charge of Aradia and Charge of the Goddess. What I'd propose is to merge them all under Aradia and addressing the Charge of Aradia as a separate heading. Thoughts? --lolaness 00:03, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
- I'm strongly in favour of keeping the Charge of the Goddess separate. Yes it was based on the Vangel, yet it has also gained a huge amount of other context and history as one of the key Wiccan texts. It deserves its own article. That doesn't mean you can't talk about it in Aradia, or the Gospel of the Witches, or Aradia (goddess). I agree that Charge of Aradia should be merged (probably into Aradia, or the Gospel of the Witches), since "Charge of Aradia" is not a common term, and it doesn't describe a text that has any separate existence from the Vangel. Fuzzypeg 10:24, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
Queen of the Witches
[edit]Aradias mother Diana is the "Queen of the Witches", Aradia is the "First of Witches known", (Page 9, 17, Lelands Gospel of Witches). Shall we make a seperate section for 'The birth of Aradia', describing more about her mother and father. In the book also there is much emphesis on Diana and Aradias birth. Vishvax 14:58, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
Merge Aradia di Toscano into this article
[edit]See Talk:Aradia_di_Toscano#Merge_with_Aradia for this discussion.