Talk:Vorpal sword

Better at Wiktionary

Definitions of this adjective might be better at Wiktonary. Wetman 21:54, 29 Jun 2004 (UTC)

I'd normally agree, but there is more information on this entry than you'd normally find in a dictionary definition. I think with all the extra info, it's fine here. :-) — Frecklefoot | Talk 22:30, Jun 29, 2004 (UTC)

Victory over Ruin, Pestilence and Lust

I wrote that I read it on a Stephen King's novel, but maybe was it on a Graham Masterton one. It was several years ago. Reply to David Latapie 20:19, 15 September 2005 (UTC)

I am pretty sure it was in "The Mirror", at least that is where I have seen it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.192.232.123 (talk) 14:48, 26 January 2014 (UTC)

Excalibur?

I seem to recall that Excalibur was a sword of sharpness, not a vorpal sword, in Deities & Demigods. (They function similarly but have different alignments). Can anyone confirm this? ShawnVW 05:29, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

Right, Arthur had a sword of sharpness, which randomly cuts off limbs, unlike the vorpal sword which only takes heads. The first place I ever saw the vorpal sword was in the AD&D DM's guide. TheStrawDog 05:07, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

dungeon keeper

dungeon keeper isn't an rpg, it's an rts. weapons just don't come into it at all. i assume that must be from a different game. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.200.192.144 (talk • contribs) 05:39, 23 April 2006

The original reference has gone, but I'd expect that the reference should have been to "Dungeon Master (computer game)", an RPG on the Atari ST (and subsequently other platforms) that from memory, featured a 'Vorpal blade'. Gwynevans (talk) 16:00, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, the original reference was mine, and it was indeed to Dungeon Master on the Atari ST - the first place I've seen a vorpal weapon in a computer game. Looks like that entry been removed along with the entry for the vorpal bunny from the original Wizardry (Wizardry: Proving Grounds of the Mad Overlord). I didn't include these because they were random, I included them because I think they may have been firsts in videos games. The references to vorpal swords and bunnies in later video games in this article don't seem as relevant to me. TheStrawDog (talk) 03:43, 9 September 2011 (UTC)

Double Listing

The Vorpal Blade also appears in the card game Munchkin, where it does double damage to any enemy whose name begins with the letter J. The card also reads "Don't ask why, don't ask what Vorpal means either"

In the Steve Jackson Games's Munchkin, there is a card named "Vorpal Blade". According to the text in the card it gives a +3 bonus to the user and "an extra +10 against anything that starts with the letter J. Don't ask why. Don't ask what Vorpal means, either."

Which is true? 24.15.167.167 10:16, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

Hmm, my Munchkin cards are way over the other side of the room... but the idea of "double damage" makes no sense in the Munchkin game (all monsters have one "hit"), so I guess the second is true. 172.142.210.231 00:16, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

Final Fantasy XII

Vorpal is also used in this game. There is a Mob Hunt you need to go after, and that is the "Vorpal Bunny." --68.102.37.191 23:16, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

Star Wars

I edited out the reference from Star Wars - "Vorpal is also the style of swordplay created and used by Master Mace Windu" - as it was incorrect. Windu's style is "Vaapad", not Vorpal. Figured I'd make mention of this here, in case whoever wrote it originally objects to its deletion and wonders why it was cut. Hossenfeffer 00:04, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

Spoilers?

A sword identified as a Vorpal Blade, able to cut space-time, is featured in Charles Stross' forthcoming Glasshouse.

The Vorpal Blades capabilities in the novel would seem to be an important plot point. Might be a good idea to put up a spoiler warning... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.104.7.251 (talk • contribs) 04:46, 23 February 2007

I've read Glasshouse and the vorpal sword is not a plot device, and its powers are unveiled relatively early in the story. There's no need to warn for spoilers. -- Henriok 20:19, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

Quite an awful page...

Really, it's mostly just a bloated list of trivia. In my opinion, this article could use a bitof vorpal editing. CatBoris 21:48, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

We could just cut out some of the trivia at random, but I think that would be a mistake. The way to make this article better is to use the examples to illustrate points. For example, it says that "vorpal" has been taken to mean a warped blade in some instances. I think that would be a perfect place for an example or two to source and illustrate that statement. Similarly, we could illustrate examples of vorpal blades that are especially good at cutting off heads, etc. Any examples that do not serve to illustrate anything specific about vorpal blades can be discarded, but we should hold off on discarding until we are sure the examples are not useful, or else we will just make improving this article more difficult. -- Lilwik 08:58, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

How come you cut out the example I posted in 2005? --Is a tech reference more trivial to you than D&D archania?--- Appearances in technology(Possible acronym VORPAL or reference to "Vorpal Blade".") VORPAL is a visual plasma simulation system. It is used in high energy physics. VORPAL computes and visualizes electron beams in a plasma. Using VORPAL, results over short distances can be better than using a huge and costly accelerator. University of Colorado VORPAL http://cips.colorado.edu/CIPSsite/announcements/VORPAL.html Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vorpal" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.253.189.93 (talk) 01:27, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

Hmm... seems some fellow came and did a bit of cropping. I think I'll revert, then crop it out a bit more selectively. Only leaving the book examples doesn't seem very good or representative. Ong elvin (talk) 01:30, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

Another book example: John Ringo's new book Vorpal Blade. SpareSimian (talk) 11:44, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

Okay... so people keep adding examples back in. I think what I'll do then is select a few must-have references (eg, American McGee's Alice, for obvious reasons) and a few that specifically reference the "sharpness" or "decapitation" aspects of Vorpal. Then kill the rest as they come. Let's say... eight to ten examples all up. Any voices? Ong elvin (talk) 12:43, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

I agree with SpareSimian. John Ringo's Vorpal Blade is a good example. It being a part of a series with many Jabberwocky references (it is mentioned there already and maybe that's enough) Kris Shannon (talk) 07:03, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

Removal of Naruto Reference

I looked at episode 23, and it seems that the mentioned use of the term Vorpal was just a translation choice by Dattebayo Fansubs, not part of the original script. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.83.166.112 (talk • contribs) 20:19, 12 August 2007

I'm putting it back since there is a great deal of use of the word Vorpal in much of todays's Japanese Anime and Manga (not to mention the gaming world). It's use in Japanese-to-English translated literature, art, and other works is not limited to this one instance of Naruto Shippuden Episode 23. There is obviously a Japanese word with equivalent meaning or, at the very least, 'Vorpal' has a commonly known meaning in Japan. Citation needed? Here you go - Jabberwocky - English-to-Japanese Translation with Kanji —Preceding unsigned comment added by Skj91 (talk • contribs) 12:23, 9 May 2008

"Obviously"? That doesn't cut it. You'd need a source which actually made that claim, not some anecdotal usage of that particular translation. There's nothing authoritative about the reference you've given. Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 11:29, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

The word is just gibberish that was made-up by Lewis Carroll in the first place. Just how legitimate a referance to it do you expect? The whole point you're missing here is the fact that this word which is invented for a poem by L. Carroll has developed itself into a word with an actual meaning which is known world-wide. The stripping of every referance made to it strips the very essence of its meaning as it's only through the context in which it's read that it even HAS a meaning! What makes you the authority on what is or isn't a relevant referance to the actual meaning of the word when, without the definition applied to it by the pop culture referances you keep removing, it HAS NO meaning at all?!?!

At the very least you could redirect to a page which does maintain a full listing of all the known citations of the word Vorpal found in other popular culture medium. Fine if you absolutely MUST make the main article totally dummied down to nothing but a single paragraph about it but you don't have to completely remove the entire store of information found in other referances from existance. Put the referances listed somewhere else and just link to that list from the main page but don't just trash it all, jeesh. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Skj91 (talk • contribs) 13:15, 9 May 2008

The correct solution is not to fill an article with garbage references to the word. If it is a nonsense word with no established meaning, then it shouldn't have an article at all. It does have some semblance of a meaning insofar as it can be derived from particular sources which closely tie the weapon's functionality to the Carroll tale; there's a John Ringo book discussed in the thread above which should probably be added to the article, for instance, as it is a solid reference. But random uses of the word "vorpal" are pointless, and of no value. We have Wiktionary to provide a basic definition for people who don't know what it means. Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 12:27, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

In an episode of the Cartoon Network show Dexter's Laboratory called "D&DD" (an episode in which the characters play a game similar to Dungeons & Dragons called "Monsters & Mazes"), Dee Dee, acting as the "Game Master" forces the characters to confront a dragon. When one of them slays the dragon she declares, "Your vorpal blade goes snicker-snack and WHACK! Off goes the dragon's head!"

So how does that one not obey your criteria of a valid referance? The creature is beheaded, afterall, isn't that the most significant attribute of a "vorpal blade"? (the sharpness of such a blade would be a given... anything that can successfully behead some creature, particularly a large one like a dragon, in one whack is likely quite sharp.) And it's FAR more relevant than that Munchkin one that remains on the page. Tell me how that is more relevant than the Dexter's Lab referance? It's completely pointless and reflects nothing about the Lewis Carroll poem other than it having a creature called Jabberwocky in it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Skj91 (talk • contribs) 12:58, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

That one fails WP:N, because nobody cares whether they mentioned it in a cartoon once. Notable references are ones which have had some influence on public perception of the subject, or which can be seen to have had real-world consequences, or are referenced as notable by prominent secondary sources. This is why snooker does not have a five-hundred-page-long section on popular culture references where two people in some book play snooker.

The Munchkin reference was only added yesterday. You're right in saying that it isn't notable; I've deleted it. Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 13:21, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

'Voracious' and 'Corporeal'?

I'm not sure who put that definition of vorpal up, but it's not one Lewis Carrol gave us, and it doesn't fit the style of his other portmanteaus. I removed it, since it's just some random conjecture. If you have evidence for it other than it sounding cool, please link to it or give a reference. Paladinwannabe2 19:47, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

Additional, by Kaptain_Kaos:

I also have had my suggestions deleted by some useless Wikipedia vandal. I take issue with the statement above by this "Paladinwannabe2". He says he deleted the suggestion "Voracious/Corporeal" because it's not a definition Lewis "Carrol" gave us. That is the whole problem, idiot. LEWIS CARROLL DIDN'T GIVE A DEFINITION FOR VORPAL. And his name was Carroll, with two L's not Carrol, with one. "Voracious/Corporeal" is nearly as good a suggestion as some of mine, and is certainly better than the garbage from Taylor that has been allowed to remain on this page. Does using alternate letters from "verbal" and "gospel" fit the style of Carroll's other portmanteaus? Don't just delete shit you were too thick to think of yourselves. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 101.172.255.241 (talk) - and also - — Preceding unsigned comment added by 101.172.255.241 (talk) 04:22, 10 August 2012‎

This is the content you are complaining about. You might want to look at WP:Original research and WP:Wikipedia is not for things made up one day. I've removed some of the pointless insults and spittle from your comment (here's the original). -- Quiddity (talk) 22:30, 11 August 2012 (UTC)

Vorpal as being synonymous with "a tendency to decapitate"

I'm encouraged to see ShawnVW's D&D references as to what "vorpal" swords do mostly (cut heads off), but I think the greater discussion here has to do with mainly 2 aspects; the origin and popularization of the word.

While it first appeared in Carrol's Jabberwocky poem, it gained global prominence and widespread usage in the context/connotation given it by Luke and Gary Gygax in the Dungeons and Dragons game. So it stands to reason that vorpal refers not to merely sharpness, but to something with a tendency to decapitate. Morpheusx (talk) 00:34, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

Yup. You guys are all right.

In RPGs, "vorpal" refers to a (ordinarily) bladed weapon that has been magically imbued in such a way that its edge is infinitely sharp. That is to say, the two sides of the blade meet at a mathematical point (or technically, a line), which is obviously impossible to do without magic because, in the real world, sharpness is limited by the size of the atoms comprising the blade. The angle of a vorpal blade's edge doesn't even necessarily have to be small; the two planes could meet at a 179.999° angle. This would seem, both visually and tactilely, to be completely flat, but the edge would nevertheless meet at a mathematical line, and thus, would always appear to be the same angle, regardless of what magnification the edge is viewed at.

A pointed, stabbing weapon, though much less common, can also be magically imbued to be made vorpal. In the case of a vorpal stiletto, for instance, the point at the tip would be infinitely pointy. A spiked mace or morning star, also, can be a vorpal weapon. Anything with an edge or a point... slashers, arrows, bolts, shurikens, rising suns (chakras), even the spike on the front of a battle shield (although I never introduced anything nearly so abstruse over the course of my AD&D campaign in my years as a Dungeon Mistress).

The word "vorpal" was coined by Lewis Carroll and appeared in the first line of his poem, Jabberwocky. "He took his vorpal sword in hand" and "One, two! One, two! And through and through. The vorpal blade went snicker-snack! He left it dead, and with its head he went galumphing back." An homage is paid to the poem in the Dungeons & Dragons universe, where a vorpal blade will ordinarily cause the automatic decapitation of an enemy on a roll of 20 on a 20-sided die, the standard die used for calculating a number of values such as damage dealt by melee weapons. Weapons with a vorpal enchantment are generally exceptionally rare, and highly sought after and valued due not only to their incredible sharpness, but their resilience, as it is impossible for a vorpal weapon to ever dull (though they are not immune to damage such as breakage or shattering). They can be forged from any number of metals, can be a straight or curved blade, but typically not serrated, and are wise to be fitted with a custom-made scabbard to hold the blade firmly by its fuller.

There is a special type of vorpal enchantment that allows the edge of a blade to extend beyond its own physical limit. This can be best visualized as a magical extension of the blade's edge with a very short length but zero thickness, but I cannot say for sure if this enchantment was ever formally introduced to the D&D / AD&D world or not.

Alexis (talk) 19:23, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

Good Explanation Alexis, I was just about to say though that Vorpal doesn't necessarily mean JUST decapitation, it means it can cut cleanly through things (because it has an infinite edge of course) Unfortunately most don't realize that and therefore when fighting an enemy that can be alive after Decapitation they tend to think the Vorpal Sword is Useless. Arkkeeper (talk) 16:23, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

Vorpal Music

Hey, I have a general question. I make music under the name Vorpal. I have never attempted to put myself into this page but have noticed over the past two years that other people keep doing it, and it keeps getting deleted.

There is a New Zealand hardcore band on here called Vorpal Blade that I never heard of. I think Wikipedia is one of the best things on the internet and I just wanna know what gives? I'm not exactly famous, but if you google the word Vorpal you will notice that my music is the 2nd pagerank, just under this wikipedia article. Why do I keep getting removed from the article?

vorpalmusic@gmail.com —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.59.81.25 (talk) 18:23, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

Having you add yourself is a conflict of interest, so it's good you haven't been doing it. I can't explain earlier removals prior to 2008, but as for now, I'm removing examples which don't reference the decapitation or infinite-sharpness aspects of "vorpal." I left the hummingbird reference because it's a real-life academic reference (or whatever you call it). Similarly, American McGee's Alice is a game based on the books; if it weren't based on the books, I would have removed that reference as well. At one point, there were way too many examples, maybe 30 of them, with practically none of their uses suggesting the same decapitation/sharpness that is suggested in the original poem.

Fallout 2

Vorpal is also present in this game. The "Vorpal rat" is found in a random encounter (rndholy2) wich has references to the film Monty Python and The Holy Grail. Due to some bug this random encounter doesn't show up under normal gameplay. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.244.82.232 (talk) 16:47, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

Pop culture references

This comment was left by User:Skj91 on the article. I've moved it to here for discussion. Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 11:13, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

---

<!-- This is NOT A DUMPING GROUND FOR RANDOM USES OF THE WORD. It covers specific notable instances which tie directly to the subject matter. Before adding a new example, think to yourself whether the reference is individually notable enough that other readers might care about it. Better yet, discuss it on the Talk page first. -->

In response to the above. Yes I DO care about the referances that have been so prudishly removed by the same handful of picky "editors" over and over again. Please YOU think about utter uselessness of this page with the referances taken out. There's nothing left at all. Nothing. The page how you would have it (that is with all the notable citations of the word as found in a variety of other medium today deleted entirely) is as useless and uninformative as a common dictionary definition of the word. THIS IS SUPPOSE TO BE AN ENCYCLOPEDIA! The examples that have been repeatedly removed (and re-appended again to include said referances by multiple editors, numerous times) are NOT irrelevant. They enforce the meaning originally implied with its initial appearance in the literary work Jabberwocky by Lewis Carroll and further enhance one's understanding of the word as read its read in context with each referance listed. The predominant purpose these examples serve, however, is that they provide the reader with an insight into how great an impact this once gibberish word, coined by Lewis Carroll, has made on modern culture. The fact that this word has been adopted by such a wide variety of modern sub-cultures signifies its own importance and not be removed. All of this enforces one's comprehension of the term Vorpal Blade and eludes to understanding that the term has definately evolved from being nothing more than a phonetically sequence of sounds appealing befitting the open space in the poem it was invented for into a word which carries with it an identifiable and specific meaning. All of this insight is completely non-existant with the page as bare and empty as you three wish it to be. Please QUIT REMOVING THE REFERANCES FOUND IN OTHER MEDIUM!!!! I personally am offended that you would take it upon yourself to deprive everyone of the resources once found here and ask you kindly to go read a few volumes of Brittanica cover-to-cover before deciding what qualifies as relative information (which, by the looks of it, is absolutely nothing).

I am reverting this page back to a much older version which includes the information I was seeking for when I came here today. Please do not delete these references again. The fact that people keep putting them back ought to clue you in to the fact that they provide exactly the type of information that readers wish to find here. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Skj91 (talk • contribs) 11:01, 9 May 2008

I'm not really sure how best to reply to this, other than to point to WP:TRIVIA and all of the accompanying material referenced in the essays linked from that page. Wikipedia is not an exploratory dictionary, and it is not a holding pace for huge amounts of random information. Very few of the old citations had any encyclopedic value, and their inclusion had forced the article into being a general discussion of the use of a random nonsense word. The old version reverted to contained such completely inappropriate information as the link to the website of a random musician who goes by the moniker "Vorpal". This is not the purpose of Wikipedia. Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 11:13, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

I would like to add to the above point with WP:NOT#INFO. Also, just because information is useful doesn't mean it's encyclopaedic. (eg, telephone numbers are useful, but not encyclopaedic.) Ong elvin (talk) 02:55, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

Misquote?

The part of the article that says:

In the miniature game "Confrontation" there is a model with a "Voral axe" it gives it a 66,666...% chance to instant kill if it hits a enemy wich can be improved to 50% if you buy a deamonic upgrade

would appear to be wrong somewhere, as as far as my meager knowledge of counting numbers goes, 50% is not an improvement on 66.66...% I'm assuming that it is either meant to read 'by 50%' or 'to 100%' (which would be identical values, wouldn't they?) Not touching right now, as the incorrectness could be something entirely different, and I'm lazySirEelBiscuits (talk) 10:09, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

Rabbits

Fictional rabbits that decapitate people have been described as "Vorpal Bunnies". The Rabbit from Monty Python and the Holy Grail is the best example of this. I believe Vorpal Bunnies as a named monster appears in the King's Quest series of adventure games, and they will decapitate the player's character with their attacks. If someone could cite a source for that, this should be included in the article. 67.140.77.41 (talk) 18:58, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

It already was, and was removed. There is such a tenuous link between the word "vorpal" in both cases and such little notability in a random video game creature as to be make it completely non-worthy of adding it here, and no canonical source has used "vorpal bunny" for the Holy Grail rabbit. This should not just be a collection of random trivia primarily advanced through Internet fandom. Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 19:58, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

Although the link between the original source for the word and a cute white bunny is undeniable. 77.66.99.28 (talk) 22:33, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Why the split?

Please see Talk:Vorpal sword (Dungeons & Dragons)#Why the split?. MagnesianPhoenix (talk) 17:53, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

Dungeons & Dragons appearance

Those blades were listed as a magical item in the 1st and 2nd edition Dungeon Master's Guide. So before BG2. Iluvalar (talk) 07:16, 19 January 2011 (UTC)

Variations between adaptions

A section on how the sword varies between adaptions would be interesting.

In the 2010 Tim Burton adaption..... (http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Alice_in_Wonderland_(2010_film)) it appears to be more than just a sword. What about the others.

Jabberwocky: So my old foe, we meet on the battlefield once again.

Alice Kingsleigh: We've never met.

Jabberwocky: Not you, insignificant bearer. My ancient enemy, the Vorpal one.

58.6.101.106 (talk) 00:48, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

Poem recited in 2010 Alice film

In the 2010 Burton film "Alice in Wonderland", the Hatter recites the full poem to Alice, and then adds: "It's all about you, you know..."

In the German translation, though, "vorpal" is being replaced by "Mrutal". As for why, I can't fathom...

Just FYI. --DscheJ-Ouh (talk) 08:34, 2 November 2013 (UTC)

Proposal to Edit main page - Please reply with approval or dismissal

May I propose that we add the following description to the opening line of this page? I believe it sufficiently conveys the importance of pop culture's influence on the word and what it has come to mean while eliminating the 'too much trivia' issue resulting from the many many instances of its use in other medium which are regularly being offered as examples, and subsequently removed, on this page. I am putting my suggestion here, please reply to this post with your approval or disagreement and if a majority of editors agree, I will edit it into the real page after, say 5 replies have given their vote. If additional replies later outweigh the majority opinion of the first five then I don't mind it being re-edited by others to reflect that but at least this way we can begin to come to an agreement over what information belongs on this page (a particularly tricky situation with this particular topic since the phrase or word is made-up gibberish with no definition, in the first place). Here is the description I propose:

The word "vorpal" was introduced by Lewis Carroll for its phonetic value in his partially nonsense poem entitled "Jabberwocky". From the context of the poem, one gathers that the word is an adjective describing the weapon used to behead the tale's monster, Jabberwocky. Since its original appearance the word has further developed (through the significant use and interpretation of many gaming, cinema, anime, and other popular culture communities) into a more difinitive word which is typically used to indicate the presence of one or more of three main characteristics:

• The ability to behead creatures with one strike.
• Infinite sharpness - which yields the ability to cut through any material.
• The sole weapon capable of killing creatures named Jabberwockies. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Skj91 (talk • contribs) 12:33, 29 April 2014 (UTC) \

Warhammer 40000

The Vorpal Swords are a Space Marine Chapter. (Warhammer 40,000 6th Edition Rulebook, pg.171) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 46.251.91.245 (talk) 16:44, 30 June 2015 (UTC)