Talk:Wadō-ryū

October 2003

Excuse me people, but everyting written in this entry, previous to the text summarized as 'Wado-Ryu, a main style of karate'(october 15 2003) was plain crap.... So I took the liberty of rewriting the whole lot.

Igor Asselbergs (3th dan JKF-Wadokai) Amsterdam

Minor editing for typos and formatting

Heya Igor.

I came by and changed a few words for spelling errors and formatting.

Matt Witherspoon (1st Dan United States Eastern Wado-ryu Karate Federation)

Belt colours

Can someone confirm the belt colours on this page?

At my dojo, purple is higher than blue whereas this page indicates that blue is senior to purple. The other colours match with what I am familiar with. Angelstorm (talk) 16:25, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

Having researched on the net, I cannot find any school that lists blue higher than purple, but several indicating vice-versa. I will edit this in the next week following no objections. Angelstorm (talk) 09:40, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

Ok, I've made this change. After a bit more research it seems that the third alternate belt ranking ( blue, purple, green ) *does* match some dojo's. However, I can't find major references of blue being higher than purple anywhere ( do a google search for "wado ryu belt colours/colors" ). Angelstorm (talk) 22:47, 21 July 2009 (UTC)

a wikibook?

I don't know where else to put this, so I decided to put it where whom it may concern would be most likely to see it. I was thinking if someone would create, or help me creating, a wikibook for wado-ryu, containing pensa, kihon, kumite and kata principles and a walkthough of the different kata's. Personally I would love to help making such a book, even make it myself, but since I'm considerably new at the sport I don't think I'm qualified to do so. My contribution could be the first pinan katas ground principles and perhaps some kumite walthrough. But what do you dan-grades have to say about it?

Article improvement

I have cleaned up this article as best I can, but it needs some work on the kanji for the kata names (characters rather than GIF images) and references throughout. Janggeom 18:00, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

Added some references

I added an introductory paragraph to the Kata section and added more information on Patterson Sensei in the section about Wado spreading beyond Japan, with footnotes for the facts. I also added some general references. S. Morris (9-Oct-2008). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.211.6.15 (talk) 03:34, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

Using images as text

The Wikipedia manual of style frowns on the use of images to print text. (MOS:IMAGES) There's a number of reasons for this which are stated there.

The images being used here in place of real Kanji should be replaced with a proper textual representation. I note that some already have been replaced with real Kanji characters, but some remain.

If you don't know how to enter Kanji characters I'm sure someone could help you -- try the Wikipedia:Helpdesk.

-Keith D. Tyler ¶ 19:20, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

Shotokan Wado Comparision Update

The comparison of Shotokan and Wado is foolishly done. Master Gigo Funakoshi experimented with attacking from the heel and hitting with the ball(cresent kicking) but left those as options, not as official technique. Grandmaster Gichin Funakoshi and Master Gigo mainly focused on moving and pivoting on the ball for great speed and easier hitting of higher parts as well as lower. The linear stance in most karate(aside from Goju, Kyukushin, and Kempo(Kenpo means law of the sword and is a mistranslation...of course language is weak and abstract...) is the initial stance to emphasize the kick as the primary attack in the attack, defense, or counter of an opponent; the beginning of most combos. Watch Lyoto Machida for example. Machida Karate is a return to the classical values and techniques of original Shotokan. He thrusts from the ball of the foot and when not attacking rests on the heel to conserve energy because it is a sport fight. Where Wado differs is in its greater emphasis on Jujitsu and the wrestling in it that Judo mostly abandoned. Shotokan borrowed more from Judo. Just look at the belt system developed by Grandmaster Jiguro Kano and his friendship with Grandmaster Gichin Funakoshi.Wiggalama (talk) 18:15, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

Actually, if you observe kata performance or the differences in the execution of reverse punch or turning, the differences in how power is delivered become very direct, heel vs. ball of the foot (on the supporting leg, not the striking leg -- a front kick is done by both with the ball of the food hitting the target). For an example, consider http://www.24fightingchickens.com/2006/09/08/how-to-front-kick/ and then look at Wado front kicks. The comparison is helpful because Wado and Shotokan stem from a common era.

But Wado has three significant differences that create the flow of Wado that is different from Shotokan:

1. The flow of power from the balls of the feet rather than the heels. It is dramatic in the difference it creates in reverse punch. The flow of power refers to the ground contact point, not the striking point of the technique. 2. The incorporation of JuJitsu moves beyond atemi wazi. 3. The retention of older forms of kata.

I find both styles well worth study and appreciation.

Of note, in 1935, Gichin Funakoshi's book, "Karatedo Kyohan", was published and featured pictures of Otsuka demonstrating Idori techniques with Funakoshi.

In 1938 the name was changed to Dai Nippon Karatedo Shinbukai (Japanese Karate Martial Promoting Federation). Also in 1938 Otsuka appeared, with Toshio Kato in Genwa Nakasone's book 'Karatedo Tai-kan'. In it Otsuka shows 7 Tantodori techniques (defence against knife attacks, called 'Tanken-tori - Omote'in the book) against Kato Toshio. That same year the Dai Nippon Butoku Kai awarded him the rank of Renshi-Go and his style was registered as, "Shin Shu Wado Ryu".

http://adrr.com/ (talk)Ethesis June 05, 2010 (I think you missed the point of comparison which was not to denigrate either style, but to point out fundamental differences. Obviously both styles have produced world champions).

An edit that says "just the facts" when the change is clearly observable fact to anyone with even modest experience in both styles is neither helpful nor correct.

I added the examples because they are places where no one would take them as an attack on either style (they are just factual descriptions of how the two styles do reverse punch, or of how both styles handle turns. You can watch the punches or watch the turns in kata to see exactly what is described).

Shotokan uses both types of reverse punch. The straight legged style is taught to junior grades to develop power and strong stances. For more advanced and sports purposes the other type gives a lot of extra reach to score a point, but is less powerful. Turning on the heels is slightly faster than on the balls of the feet, but is not practised in the west because it is considered bad for the knee joints.--Charles (talk) 10:26, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

Another great place to compare is the kicks and what happens to the base or support foot (*not* the striking foot).

http://www.24fightingchickens.com/2006/09/08/how-to-front-kick/ for Shotokan, now compare to Wado.

They are different, though I'm not going to argue better. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.185.142.155 (talk) 00:21, 22 August 2010 (UTC)

Kata name kanji and translation

I replaced the kanji images with actual characters, but the kata section is still kind of a mess to be honest. For two reasons.

1. Some of the kanji used in this article are different from the kanji used in the kata's respective article (Wanshū, Rōhai). Wanshū for example is written as 晩愁 in this article, but as 腕秀 and 汪輯 in its own article. I wouldn't be surprised if different styles used different kanji for a kata name while keeping the same pronunciation, but at the moment it just looks like this article is wrong, so we should find a reliable Wadō-ryū source for the kanji used.

2. Some of the translations given in the article are actually for the Shōtōkan versions of the names, not for the original ones used in Wadō-ryū (Kushanku/Kankū, Niseishi/Nijūshiho, Wanshū/Enpi). The original ones could have meant something completely different. If we go by the currently used kanji for Wanshū for example (晩愁), it would mean "evening sorrow", not "flying swallow" or "swallow flight", which is the translation of Enpi (燕飛).

As far as I know, some (most? all?) of those kata have a history of a few hundred years behind them and their names were pretty awkwardly transcribed from Chinese to Okinawan and/or Japanese, which is why even Japanese people have no real idea what their names are supposed to mean and prefer to just write them in katakana for that reason (see the Japanese article for this style).

MugiMafin (talk) 22:13, 25 May 2016 (UTC)

Kunpu and Unsu

The Japanese article for Wadō-ryū doesn't list those two kata, and this site doesn't either, so we need an explanation for that, similar to the one for Suparinpei I guess, but preferably with a source. MugiMafin (talk) 22:28, 25 May 2016 (UTC)