Talk:Molvanîa

Move the article

The book is called Molvania, and always references the country as Molvania - the accent/grave is only used on the title cover. — mæstro ^t/c 11:01, 10 October 2005 (UTC)

What sort of dipshit files a lawsuit when they find out that a fictional nation, which the book they've been reading has described as the closest thing to hell on Earth, really is fictional? I think that bit must be a joke. It out to be cut out. I've been reading the actual book, and I have to tell you that I'm glad there's no place that's actually as bad as it describes, even as I laugh my fool head off.
Wareq

• Agreed - until somebody provides a source for the lawsuit claim, I'm treating it as an urban legend. Captainmax 23:35, 30 May 2005 (UTC)

• Could they have assumed Moldavia? That is how in English the former Soviet republic was known before the way its known today, Moldova. Moldavia-Molvania can look the same on first glance. Celtmist 9-10-05

In English, Moldavia is the Romanian part of Moldova, which has the historical continuity and the nucleas land. Moldova is the now independent republic. In Romanian, the name Moldova is used for both regions. --Candide, or Optimism 12:46, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

The authors of this book try hard to be satirical yet instead, only look stupid. The purpose of writing any travel book is to site observations where-as these authors did nothing but display ignorance. For example: Two types of architecture, ancient ruins from the Roman Empire and Soviet style communist tower blocks complete with their non-reinforced concrete. The joke is, Rome is associated with splendour whilst soviet communism paints a grim picture. Indeed this is how people in the 'West' including myself were systematicly tought to look at Eastern Europe. But whilst it emerges that some eastern European countries did BETTER for themselves under the socialist regime, one can hardly say that life is all beauty in South America and Central Asia in many of the countries which had 'pro-west/anti-Moscow' governments. I first visited Bulgaria in 1986 and was shocked. Shocked at how clean the streets of Sofia were, shocked at the scrict policy towards litter-bugs (people who throw garbage). I was amazed how natural the life was, how people knew how to enjoy themselves and make the most of what they had whilst a few corrupt individuals, anticipating the end of the Socialist rule, are preparing to corrupt the nation and cause the collapse of President Zhivkov. Ask todays Bulgarians how much better 'capitalism' is. I'll say nothing, they'll do the talking here. I do not say that life was great for all countries at all times in socialism. The beauties of Roman architecture. where in the world we still have ruins from a bygone era, can anyone tell me which is ugly? Which works of human cultural achievement are unsightly from before the 20th century? It seems everything is beautiful. At the same time, what 'nice' work is there in the aftermath of World war II? Plain basic, box shaped buildings. Was it only Soviet states which developed a taste for this luxury? I should be a tour guide, showing the authors of Molvania the miles and miles of post-war crumbling, dirty, apocalyptic concrete that composes Londons east-end (and much of the rest of London), but here in Plaistow where I live in particular, or try Tower Hamlets. Please remind me when London was under Soviet rule; atleast in Romania and Poland these buildings were in straight lines, with shops, trade, sport centres, flower shops etc along the bottom rows, with people sitting outside having a beer, or a coffee, or lunch etc. I lived in Brooklyn, new York in the early 80s, what did they have? Torn cinemas, lines of prostitutes, drinking houses desinged for nightly brawls. I returned to visit my cousins in Brooklyn in 2003 and it seems they still love their 'Soviet style buildings'. Even Paris has not escaped post-war concrete, nor Rome, nor Munich. The reason it is more apparent in central (sorry, 'Eastern') Europe is that being the venue for WWII there was so much damage and immediate demand to rehouse millions of people in such a short time. London was the same, hence my flat here on the 18th floor overlooking west Ham Uniteds Upton Park. But I still don't understand why they had to pick on Eastern Europe. Could it not have been a pro-fascist state during WWII with a puppet 'capitalism' regime? One praised by Washington whilst a 'moderate' dictator uses military control to prevent uprisings by the residents who wish to re-nationalize the natural resources and stop the profits lining the pockets of Western Business Giants whilst the poor population sweats to earn next to nothing? For such an 'experienced' group of authors and yet they have never come accross this kind of thing. How good were Portugal and Spain for the first three decades after World War II? The book was promising but so much more could have been done to even the balance, thus ridicule the stereotypes rather than promote them. AlfredG aug'13'2005

What the hell are you talking about? TheOne

Molvania tells the truth

I lived for two years in Prague, and I did not meet a single person who said things were better in the old days. In 40 years of Communism, the government did not make a single quality women's sanitary product or sheet of decent toilet paper. You couldn't get fresh fruit in the winter, and getting bananas meant traveling across town and waiting in line for half an hour. Apartment buildings would go without hot water for a month every summer. People horded goods because no one knew what there would be a shortage of next. People were jailed for playing rock and roll music [1] or for signing a petition calling on the government to respect its human-rights obligations. Religion was supressed -- the Communists destroyed Bratislava's synagogue. Hundreds of people were shot trying to leave the country.

That's why Czechs and Slovaks are among the most-vocal opponents of Fidel Castro's regime in Cuba. Only Westerners who never had to live under Communism can say it wasn't so bad.

Of course, there's a lot of problems with the rest of the world. Crap Towns, a book about the worst places to live in the UK, is a lot of fun, as a similar book about the US would be. But 40 years of Communism undoubtedly left a scar on the former Soviet Bloc that will take decades to heal. Mwalcoff 07:15, 15 August 2005 (UTC)

Maybe you had it bad in Czechoslovakia under Soviet occupation, but the golden age of Socialism is fondly remembered in all ex-Yugoslav states, like Slovenia, Macedonia, Croatia, Montenegro, Serbia, Bosnia; it is true that ex-Yugoslavia had more freedoms and much higher standards of living than Czech republic or Poland (which was dirt cheap and a bag of Vegeta could get you far in these days), but it is also true that even today in Slovenia, which has still the highest standard of living, GDP per capita etc of all ex-communist countries, Tito's years are remembered as better times. Transition hit especially hard east of the yugoslavia even harder than the war, so nostalgia for Tito's era is very much alive. Slovinan (talk) 03:07, 14 January 2014 (UTC)

Maybe all of these losers who wear che guavera tshirts should find out what its like to live in a real 'socialist paradise' Ikfaldu Dod 16:07, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

Neoimperialism is greater evil than communism. The only reason Cuba is so poor is because of US sanctions. It has nevertheless better health care and education than US; your imperialist POV is noted!Slovinan (talk) 03:07, 14 January 2014 (UTC)

It amazes me to think people believe now that "Communism wasn't so bad..." but tell me, if it was so good then why:

- did it result in people emigrating from Communist governments? - did it culminate in barbarism unparalelled since WWII in the form of the Khmer Rouge?? Everton4Life

They did not emigrate from Yugoslavia, which had open travel arrangements with the west - anyone was free to travel anywhere they wanted, red Yugoslav passport didn't require visa for east or west and we traveled more freely than people from west (or east of course); anyone was free to leave, yet most stayed and did not emigrate (much more people emigrated these areas in the post communist times).Slovinan (talk) 03:12, 14 January 2014 (UTC)

Communism is many things. China is communist and is experiencing economic growth unseen in the west, taking over US rapidly, though it was feudal state few decades ago; under Stalin, USSR quickly industrialised to become superpower, sending first man into space etc, and USSR was second only to US by GDP. Standard of living was perhaps lower, but many perks existed that do not in capitalist countries; the Yeltsin disaster is reason why people love Putin in Russia and fondly remember Soviet days of glory. But communism is not only China, USSR and Soviet satelites (colonies) - it is also former Yugoslavia that had very high standard of living (that fell due to war and transition, only Slovenia managed to go relatively unaffected and kept the standard, which is still much higher than in any former Easter European country), combining western freedom (repression is much lower than in the Soviet Bloc) with free education, health care and socialist equality like it exists in Cuba today (lower standard than some Nordic countries, but Slovenia had more relaxed times in the Tito's era than today). Also, there is Vietnam, endlessly exploited and abused by the western imperialists, which is rapidly developing, like China (and also quite different from North Korea, which is a Stalinist state). Western imperialists believe their simplistic propaganda and racist prejudices against Russians and Slavic people, and this "Molovania" is nothing but bunch of racist hateful prejudices by hypocritical west. Read Slavoj Zizek for a more nuanced views of communism, which is far lesser evil than imperialism and colonialism - USSR was in fact not only a communist/socialist country, but also imperialist (Russian imperialism), and Soviet satelite states like Albania, Czechoslovakia, Poland, Romania, Bulgaria or Hungary were suffering because of imperialist Soviet exploitation, not due to socialist ideology which is nowadays applied in many countries like France or Sweden in issues like health care and education. Slovinan (talk) 03:07, 14 January 2014 (UTC)

There is a difference between "good" and "not so bad". The whole purpose many chose to go left in the early 20th century is because they weren't too good to begin, this led ordinary working masses to look to the left. Like all systems, the eastern European regimes had their faults, but I see that even today, many people now in the EU crave for the days before 1990, many are disillusioned by this "pro-West" opportunity and find themselves living worse. Sure you get a few rich people in the former Soviet countries, and rich they are like the average person could never imagine. Becoming rich was not possible in the old system, now there is nobody to ask questions "where did you get that new car from?". Which one of you is going to say that Roman Abramovich earnt his money from working hard 7 days a week in the pits from the age of 3. Who here believes that Romania's former leader Iliescu can afford to splash out as he does because of the goodness of POST-Ciausescu Romania? Perhaps so, what about the other 30 million Romanians? Sure the Czech Republic has seen a lot of improvement since 1990, a wonderful airport they have in Prague, who paid for it? Grants from the stable countries did. But what has any of this got to do with the points you lot made? "People get shot for leaving" and "them what wear Che Guevara T-shirts". Many people believe in the doctrines of socialism, it doesn't mean that they believe in military dictatorships. Does a system have to be communist for it to be a military dictatorship? Must a Sheikh be cast as a Leninist before he stones women for adultery and bans cinema? Today there are 5 countries with Communist governments, are the other 200 countries all great countries to live in? I'm not looking for battles here and I know that when a country is bad, it's bad. But let's nbot kid ourselves that "Communism" drives a rich stable country into a poor instable one. Balkantropolis 12:34, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

The truth indeed

It wasn't my purpose to introduce a political theme here but I have to say something in response to the above observation by the user Mwalcoff: I never did for one minute suggest that the period under socialism (for that is what it was, not communism) was by any means a Golden Age for the countries to have experienced it. I know for a fact that many countries today feel that times were a lot worse. The two former republics which composed Czechoslovakia are an example. I don't know about Slovakia so much, their economy deteriorated severely for the next few years after 1993 regardless what Lonely Planet writers and U.S State Department statistics reveal, this is something you have to take from me and believe it; the Czech Republic and Hungary claim that life is now better and that is their choice. I go to Budapest quite often and life doesn't look that lovely to me even now - the fact is that Eastern Europe as a stigma, as it were, predates 20th century socialism. It just happens that the western side of the continent is in fact on the whole more developed than its east. But back to my point, I know Romania and Bulgaria very well now. I can also say that I knew these countries at least towards the end of their socialism period, that is to say that I did visit Romania three times whilst Ciausescu was president and Bulgaria about four times when Todor Zhivkov was in power. Life WAS comfortable for the masses, save for propoganda being spat from hidden corners by their political opponents - I am not praising Zhivkov for his democratic visions. But there can be no question that for most Bulgarians, life was better before and this includes the former Turks (ethnic Turks forced to relinquish their identity and become Slav-Bulgarians). Where-as you could have left your doors unlocked all night, slept on the streets etc, you soon developed a system where there were bandits robbing cars whilst people were driving them and now the Police will pick you up and fine you for sleeping out in the open. And whatever you say, in an age where people are supposed to be now better informed about the realities of life outside their sheltered homes, this book comes along and opens a whole new can of worms. Just as people begin to visit these countries to learn that things were not quite as bad as they have been shown, here comes a book that makes a joke on the principles that it is worse than is humanly possible. Try writing a book about a forgotten Scandinavian kingdom, descended from Vikings, a seafaring nation, an early member of the EEC - the joke wouldn't stretch would it? These former republics in socialism would have been poorer than the rest of Europe (on the whole) whether they had socialist governments or not - it is only a matter of distribution of ownership, the rest of it has nothing to do with the actual system - there are dictatorships around the world in pure capitalist societies where one isn't only shot trying the leave the country, but is shot for hoping to STAY in the country. At the same time, there was Yugoslavia, now although Yugoslavia was rather excluded from Eastern Europe for those 40 or so years (not a memember of Comecon, the the Bloc etc), Josef Broz (Tito) still allined himself to the economical east and the system in Yugoslavia was very similar to the rest of Eastern Europe. Yet the northernmost republic of Slovenia still boasted a standard of living equal to that of neighbouring Austria (by 1989 it was claimed that life had infact emulated Austria and Italy's north). I went to Slovenia as late as this year (May 2005) and I can say that the country is very beautiful as it is far ahead of Slovakia and the Czech Republic, however not better than Austria. Of course, if socialism was the guilty cause of Slovenia not developing even more, perhaps now they'd boast a standard of living better than the Swiss. The Czech Republic has moved forward since independence, but so too have Norway, Canada, Australia and Belgium - all western nations have moved forward and so the position of most of eastern Europe remains what it was in relation to the rest of the world. Two things to top this off, Prague and its people represent a minor elite within the former socialist block, they may have always been opposed to the system - according to people in Slovakia, the Prague residents never did much to try to make the old system work but in any case, try more rural areas of the Czech Republic, they may not have been very sympathetic towards Moscow since the 1968 failed uprisings but they are certainly not throwing parties and rallying around the flag in the country's marvelous achievements since 1993, unemployment as never seen before, crime as neevr seen before, poverty as socialism never permitted. By the way, it might be worth me saying that my wife was born in present day Czech Republic. Finally, we are concentrating on one area whereby the book focuses on all areas of general ignorance, such as the Balkan-7 conference which Molvania is said to have joined: a confederation of landlocked states. Landlocked states indeed, the Balkan is just a peninsula, nowadays used to mean the former Yugoslavia but actually discludes Slovenia and much of northern Croatia but incorporates Albania, Bulgaria and Greece as well as the European part of Turkey. But lets be 'Molvanian stereotypes' and say that the Balkan is all of Eastern Europe. The joke is that since so many countries have broken away, many have no access to the sea. In the Balkan, I count one such example, the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia. Though Serbia does not have sea access, it remains a constituent republic within Serbia & Montenegro, and her sister republic Montenegro does have over 100 kilometres of access to the Adriatic. Bosnia on creation (in post-WWII Yugoslavia) was granted 5km of sea access covering the port town of Neum, little it may be but none-the-less discludes it from being landlocked. So apart from Moldova, the Czech and Slovak republics, Hungary and Belarus, the rest of the Eastern European countries, even the newly formed ones, all have sea access. I guess Molvania would make seven there. But outside of the former Soviet Block we have Lichtenstein, Andorra, San Marino, The Vatican, Luxembourg, Austria and Switzerland - a real 7 without the fictional creation. What do you think about that? I'll leave anyone to get back at me and I'll respond in the near future. user:AlfredG

Lighten up! They're all going to be like this

This discussion is way off-topic. Granted Molvania is an uncharitable depiction of Eastern Europe, and doubtless Phaic Tan might cause offence to people in Southeast Asia, but judging by the locations of other fictitious countries that the authors have, nowhere (except North America) is going to be immune from ridicule or scorn. 'Pfaffländ' is set in Scandinavia - will we have people indignant about the depiction that part of the world too?

I find both Lonely Planet and Rough Guides written by self-important windbags - it's nice to see someone deflate the likes of them! Quiensabe 2005-08-29 05:41 UTC

I dunno if they'll make Pfaffländ, its just one of those fake books mentioned to make Jetlag Travel Guides more authentic. On they other hand, they've made San Sombrèro (mentioned at the back of Molvania) into the third book.--Greasysteve13 14:38, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

I think people are missing the point of Jetlag travel guides here. They're not meant to ridicule any country or region, but rather ridicule the travel guide genre. It's true that they take probably the worst cliches about the regions concerned (Eastern Europe, South-East Asia, Central America) and greatly exaggerate them- of course the more cynical amongst us will say that everything has a certain element of truth to it. --Everton4Life

Agreed

All right, you win Quinsabe, but only because I like your last remark. Lonely Planet authors being windbags, that is true. But back to the original topic, the book 'Molvania' - my other main critisizm is that it is generally all the same, all the way through it is a sequence of clauses followed by a punchline as it were. They don't vary in length, it's like 1-2-3-4-Punchline, 1-2-3-4-Punchline, right the way through. User:AlfredG 29-08-05

I think you're taking this way to seriously. It's parody. It's satire. It's ruthless. It's funny. — mæstro ^t/c 14:45, 9 October 2005 (UTC)

Having re-read the book, it is clear to me AlfredG's observation is simply not true. Format (talk) 07:39, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

Taking it too seriously

The comments here are too much! The book is a send up of travel books and their formulaic ways of appearing to provide vague facts and info about the country, trying to describe complex societies in one paragraph and inevitably failing, and dredging up ancient customs and presenting them as if they are still common in the modern world when obviously they wouldn't be. I assumed the name Molvanîa was inspired by Moldavia in Dynasty (1981 TV series). In the Doctor and the Medics video for their cover of Waterloo the country Moldavia (or soemthing very similar) is on the Eurovision Song Contest voting panel. Asa01 00:22, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

Racial villification

When talking about the national anthem, the article says, " The third verse is now considered optional due to Australian laws against racial vilification." But my copy of the book says that the third verse is optional due to EU laws against racial villification. I will change the article to conform with the book (Besides, why would a nation in eastern Europe follow Australian laws)--Fantastic fred 15:17, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

I would think that they adapted this wording for each of the various editions of the book. So the Australian version speaks of Australian laws, versions published in EU countries of EU laws, etc. SchnitteUK (talk) 11:25, 17 August 2023 (UTC)

The Borders

Wouldnt it have to border Austria? IloveTrains (talk) 07:42, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

No because it is only a joke. Format (talk) 07:39, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

Article is about the book

Article opener changed as this article is about the book and not just the country. The fictional country is within the book. The article goes beyond the fictional country describing items of the travel guide unrelated to the country (adverts for other travel guides). Format (talk) 04:00, 7 February 2009 (UTC)

Rotated Map

Why is the rotated map shown alongside the map from the book? --75.36.142.117 (talk) 03:45, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

This version of the page [2] makes the reason for the rotated map clear. One picture had since disappeared. Format (talk) 06:21, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

PNG transparency demonstration

File:Molvania Map.png

The regional map of Molvanîa (as presented in the book)

the same map but rotated

Moldova

England

Reminded me more of England !

Actually it seems it was a joke against Moldova, which is presumably why it was deleted !

File:Geomorph-Mol.png has an interesting history ... perhaps it has no origins in the book ?

--195.137.93.171 (talk) 15:44, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

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