Talk:Air (French band)

Mike Mills

I think the Mike Mills Air refers to, is another Mike Mills, not the R.E.M member... does anyone have any info on this?—Preceding unsigned comment added by NuclearFunk (talk • contribs) 12:38, 2 June 2005 (UTC)

He's been the director of several videos for them and he drew several of their album covers too.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.102.7.229 (talk) 00:37, 1 September 2005 (UTC)

Album order incorrection.

From the inroduction: "critically acclaimed _first_ album Moon Safari was _followed_ by the release of Premiers Symptômes"

And from the discography: "# 1997 Premiers Symptômes - (5 tracks) - 12"/CD Source

1. 1998 Moon Safari - 12"/CD/MD Source - UK #6
2. 1999 Premiers Symptômes - (7 tracks) - 12"/CD Source - UK #12"

Clearly something isn't right here. A correction or an explanation would be appreciated.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.224.172.65 (talk) 19:54, 21 September 2005 (UTC)

"Although Air's music is often referred to as electronica or trip-hop and is often found in such bins in record stores, " ermm proof please?? What a load of crap!. Air are a huge band. Wikipedia talks such shit!!!!!!!!!!—Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.107.17.199 (talk) 00:15, 28 January 2006 (UTC)

The original Premiers Symptômes was released in 1997 in limited copies. After the success of Moon Safari, the album was re-released in 1999 with added bonus tracks.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.215.121.208 (talk) 18:38, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

Record Label

Air left Recordmakers some months ago.Does anybody have informations about a new record label?—Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.246.211.13 (talk) 10:59, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

Please sign your posts on talk pages per Wikipedia:Sign your posts on talk pages. Thanks! Hyacinth 05:19, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

Elle A Du Shell

What is this Air's Elle A Du Shell CD which is sold all over Internet but isn't listed here?—Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.128.184.29 (talk) 17:27, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

It seems to be a different Air, and as such the record is mistakenly lumped in on some websites with this Air. The Air who released "Elle A Du Shell" (alternatively listed as Air IV) is German DJ Pete Namlook, aka Peter Kuhlmann (see this page on Discogs for the artist: [1] and this page for the album: [2].

Gram 22:59, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

homosexualtiy

aren't these guys gay? not that there's anything wrong with that...—Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.109.131.137 (talk) 23:21, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

A common speculation given their song "Sexy Boy", but no, and there isn't. Hyacinth 08:48, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

No, they are not gay, if you look in the Moon Safari booklet, their wives are credited as doing the clapping in La Femme du Argent. And, again, if you read the Moon Safari booklet, the song New star in the sky is dedicated to the son of one of them, can't remember who right now. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 189.174.250.32 (talk) 21:19, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

Move to Air (French band)?

Before they were simply Air, they were known as Air (French band)[3]. Since this name has some history behind it, i think it would make a better title for the article. Also, another air is at Air (Japanese band), so this move would increase consistency, too. Does anyone else support this move? Foobaz·o< 01:54, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

I've only seen "Air - French Band" on the cover of Moon Safari, and nowhere else. It's not mentioned on Les Premiers Symptômes. I can't tell you whether or not it's on the cover of the early singles, since I don't own any of them, but I've always thought the "French Band" was just a one off for moon Safari. So I would be against the move. Lijnema 22:15, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

Even though it may have been used only once, it is nevertheless a "specification" that was once used and is therefore a good choice for a disambiguation suffix, because nothing new is 'invented' by Wikipedia. --88.66.35.154 19:51, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

Videos and movies cleanup?

I don't really see the point of listing every single movie that's had music by Air in it. It doesn't really seem all that interesting. Is there anyone who objects to removing everything except music videos (and videos about Air (if there are any))? Those I really want to remove are 10 Things I Hate About You, Startup.com, and Lost in Translation. I'm not sure about The Architecture of Reassurance, because I don't know anything about it, I'll have to see what I can find about it, but unless it's about Air, or their music I'd like to remove it. I think The Virgin Suicides can be left in, because as far as I know, Air made all music for the movie. Thoughts? --Lijnema 11:22, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Personally, I think it's useful and informative to list the movies that have featured Air's music, even if there are quite a few of them. I do agree that it takes up a good chunk of space. Perhaps there's a way it could be streamlined a little.Ministry of Silly Walks 01:51, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

I agree with Ministry, and I especially think "Lost in Translation" should stay in, as the song was originally intended for the movie. The song is called "Alone in Kyoto", and it is used when she is alone...and in Kyoto.monkeygra 21:14, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

Kazakstan?

Why does it say in "Origin" that there from kazakstan when nothing about it is mentioned in the article? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Minivergur (talk • contribs) 15:38, 24 February 2007 (UTC).

Acronym

Is there a source for it anywhere? I did a quick google search, and there were a few pages mentioning it, but I couldn't find any pointing to a real source. --Lijnema 10:54, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

No one? Because without sourcing it would be better to revert all those capitalised AIRs into Airs. --Lijnema 01:17, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

I don't have a source and don't know one way or the other, but I agree that it should be reverted if no source is produced. --PEJL 09:48, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

just because you can't find an *definitive* internet source doesn't mean it isn't true. not every bit of information in existance is on the internet. while i haven't heard this first-hand, i did find this: http://www.airfrenchband.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=636&sid=17150a74a642c8dec8d2d71f19294760 there are a few posts in there. monkeygra 06:47, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

Please read Wikipedia:Citing sources Wikipedia:Verifiability and also WP:EL#Links normally to be avoided. And Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information. I have reverted for now but if you find proper sources for backing up your claim, I encourage you to re-insert the information. – sgeureka ^t•c 07:00, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

from the book "AIR de A à Z" by Jennifer Lesieur (which is in French and apparently hard to find): "Air. Il y a trois lettres dans ce mot : A pour Amour, I pour Imagination, R pour Rêve." Jean-Benoît Dunckel, l'un des deux cerveaux de Air, a bien résumé son oeuvre. ----- or roughly translated thanks to BabelFish: "Air. There are three letters in this word: A for Amour, I for Imagination, R for Rêve." Jean-Benoit Dunckel, one of the two brains of Air, summarized his work well. ---- this i found from the airfrenchband.org forums ---- as well, on almost all releases the band name is spelled in all capitals, so i think the page should be moved to AIR (band), but i don't want to piss people off.monkeygra 20:58, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

How the name is capitalized on album covers is irrelevant, per WP:NC#Album titles and band names. What is relevant is whether the name is really an acronym or not. While the name may at one time have been an acronym, the question is if it is still being used as such. --PEJL 21:36, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

i've personally always disagreed with the naming conventions of Wikipedia (and Discogs, too), but that's just me. anyway, while originally indended as an acronym as shown in the interview from "AIR de A à Z", it was never actually shown as such on their record packaging (as far as i know). I'm looking at the packaging of "Pocket Symphony" right now, and the band name is still printed in all capital letters (while the font used shows all big and small letters in the same style, the capitals are still noticeably taller than the rest). i've never seen any "official" release (original band release, not compilations that might not know better, etc.) that did NOT show the band name in all capitals. even their LateNightTales cover shows it in all capitals. monkeygra 21:57, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

But as PEJL pointed out, how they use it doesn't really matter unless it's an acronym. But anyway, I went through my CDs to check how they've capitalised their name. It looks like up until Premiers Symptomes they were using all lowercase or mixed case (you can go to this astralweks page to see what I mean, scroll down to the bottom). In the sleeve of Premiers Symptomes the name is written as "Air" everywhere. In the sleeve of Moon Safari, it's "AIR". In The Virgin Suicides, they use a font with no lowercase (so I guess you can say it's "AIR"). In 10000Hz Legend they use "AIR". And finally in Talkie Walkie it's "Air". I don't have the City Reading at hand, and I don't have Pocket Symphony at all. All the text I've mentioned is the ones in the sleeve, or the back of the sleeve, where it says who wrote/produced/etc things. Personally, I think that "Amour, Imagination, Rêve" might have been how they came up with the name Air, and is not meant as an acronym, as you point out they don't mention Air being an acronym anywhere on their sleeves, or anywhere else for that matter. I do think that it would be good to mention "Amour, Imagination, Rêve" somewhere, that Godin and Duncel find that those words summarise the music or something (the quote seems to incidate that). And finally, thanks for looking around for sources, monkeygra, good job. --Lijnema 01:58, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

to me, it seems that the capitalization of just the first letter would be because of someone at the label who wouldn't necessarily be in-the-know (especially american versions). anyway, what it is to me is something that seems very likely (the acronym deal) but none of us here know *for sure* how Dunckel and Godin intend for it to be used. i'm just thinking that it seems more likely that the band name (whether it is to be an acronym or not) is always intended to be in all-capitals. that's what i think. i'm not trying to sound like a jerk about it, or anything. monkeygra 03:56, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

I think PEJL is correct, and that WIkipedia's policy is right, simply because graphic design is not spelling or capitalization. A band may choose to use graphic design on its covers that uses all lower-case, or all caps: that does not mean the name is spelled that way. Many bands vary such designs, and it's rare to find a band that definitely claims its name should be all lower-case or all caps. Even there, I find this an annoying tendency, similar to specifying that your name appear only in 24-point Helvetica bold. Proper nouns in English capitalize their first letter: that's the standard that should be used. Unless a name is an acronym or initialism, it should not be all caps (ex: R.E.M.). 2fs 14:29, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

Air is *not* an acronym. I had the chance to interview Nicolas Godin and asked him this very question; his answer is that the acronym was invented after the fact. See http://www.ravemagazine.com.au/content/view/8209/30/ 121.45.204.74 (talk) 05:27, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

And yet in (circa) 2022 they both told the BBC, on camera that it was an acronym. I updated the article to add a section explaining the conflicting statements. —mjb (talk) 23:54, 15 February 2023 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Air10000HzLegendcover.jpg

Image:Air10000HzLegendcover.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use. Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.Betacommand ^{(talk • contribs • Bot)} 04:48, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Air10000HzLegendcover.jpg

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Fair use rationale for Image:AirTalkieWalkiealbumcover.jpg

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Fair use rationale for Image:AirSurfingRocketEPcover.jpg

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Fair use rationale for Image:Moonsafari.air.albumcover.jpg

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Vocal style

I think their vocal style deserves a mention. Prior to hearing about the band in a news report I thought they had a female front singer. As most people probably know (at least after reading the list of band members), the female voice is actually performed by a man. It's not just falsetto or something, he actually sounds like a female singer. I think that should be mentioned somewhere, because I'm sure many people expected a woman to be the owner of that voice, especially after hearing Sexy Boy. -- 78.34.72.78 (talk) 06:59, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

Welcome to the wonders of vocoders. Doesn't need to be mentioned. ♫ Douglasr007 (talk) 19:25, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

Deletion of Instruments Section

Seriously, is that necessary? I deleted it. It's useless and no other band has a section like it. 76.237.88.71 (talk) 08:09, 18 March 2011 (UTC)

"Genesis of the band"

Why does that section have such a stupid heading? I have never seen any other band page refer to the formation of the group as their "genesis." It's incredibly pretentious. --NBMATT (talk) 04:14, 25 April 2012 (UTC)

Genres

To the guy who keeps changing the genres: You can repeat yourself all you want, but repeating it doesn't make it so. The two genres I left on the page are weakly sourced, but a weak source is better than no source at all. You are adding genres the provided source does not verify. Did you even check the source? It doesn't mention genres at all, not "prog" or anything else. I looked it up in a library database. I look forward to your next block for genre warring and socking so I don't have to deal with your behavior any longer. --Spike Wilbury (talk) 02:27, 20 March 2014 (UTC)

Marcos Valle

Sound of Marcos Valle, on his 1973 album "Previsão do Tempo" (Weather Forecast), is the sound of Air on "Moon Safari". Must be cited as an influence. The tranquil period moog synthesizer sound is from the title track of that album. 86.168.57.228 (talk) 09:27, 28 July 2015 (UTC)

A Jean Michel Jarre collaboration 2015 release not listed, in this article and/or discography

The track Close Your Eyes on Jean Michel Jarre's Electronica 1 The Time Machine album could be added to the article by an editor then delete this from talk if they wish—Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.100.54.203 (talk) 15:36, 27 October 2015 (UTC)

Proposed name change

Virtually all reliable sources (see existing article refs) refer to them as "Air", not "AIR". I plan to move the article and all WP refs to reflect this accepted usage. If anyone disagrees, could you please advise why you think that the commonly recognizable name of this group is "AIR", not "Air"? --Hobbes Goodyear (talk) 04:18, 2 January 2017 (UTC)

Agree. I reviewed the discussion above from 2008 and it appears there was no conclusive evidence that it is an actual acronym, and thus should be Air, just as it is listed in reviews, sources etc. Greg Fasolino (talk) 17:28, 3 January 2017 (UTC)

Rename just done in French fr:Air (groupe). QuasarFr (talk) 13:13, 17 January 2017 (UTC)

• On "Discogs 1", all the sleeves of their records are available. On all their releases, the typography of the band is AIR in capitals, without any space and any dot between the letters. Acronym or not acronym, there's an ambiguity. We can see that the band have constantly presented themselves as AIR. Iennes (talk) 23:13, 19 January 2017 (UTC)

How they present the name is irrelevant, Wiki does not use stylized names. All caps are used ONLY for acronyms. See Kiss vs. KISS for example. There is zero evidence that this band's name had ever been intended as an acronym and they were never listed that way in press sources and reviews back in the late 1990s when they emerged. This page's usage of all caps is not standard for Wiki and in conflict with its rules, and should be changed to Air.Greg Fasolino (talk) 14:53, 20 January 2017 (UTC)

"not standard for Wiki and in conflict with its rules", it is not correct as this is not mentioned anywhere in one of the five pillars of wikipedia. You mention an essay [which one?], and as we know, an essay is not a rule. Iennes (talk) 16:44, 20 January 2017 (UTC)

Look in the acronym section of MOS. Also:

WP:MOS-TM: "Follow standard English text formatting and capitalization rules even if the trademark owner encourages special treatment".

WP:NC: "Do not replicate stylized typography in logos and album art, though a redirect may be appropriate (for example, KoЯn redirects to Korn (band)".

WP:MOS-CL#All caps: "Avoid writing in all capitals". Greg Fasolino (talk) 21:19, 20 January 2017 (UTC)

• Air is not an acronym: it has been confirmed by Godin several times. So we won't call the article AIR (band). Iennes (talk) 11:55, 22 January 2017 (UTC)

Koui², you are the only one who disagrees to mention ((stylized as AIR on their album covers) next to Air in the lead. You can see that Hobbes Goodyear made my first lead sentence less wordy and shortened it [here]. Iennes (talk) 02:22, 24 January 2017 (UTC)

Iennes, I see the discussion about not having the page title be in capitals, but I don't see a discussion here leading to a consensus about "(stylized as AIR)", one way or the other. Koui², you need to stop removing content without at least giving a reason in an edit summary. It's time for both of you, and perhaps other editors who have contributed to the previous name-related discussions if they are interested, to discuss this before editing that phrase again. Linking to reliable sources in the discussion would be useful, too. I hope not too much time is spent on this; the article has much more serious problems with puffery, exaggerated claims and unsourced (and therefore possibly non-notable) opinions of band members. —Anne Delong (talk) 04:49, 11 February 2017 (UTC)

Change of name from "Air (French band)" to "Air (band)" 2017

Could we change the name of the article Air (French band) to Air (band). It is more neutral and there isn't any other band called Air (bar Air (free jazz trio) a not famous band, visibility on wikipedia = article seen 230 in the last 30 days...]), so Air (French band) is not justified. Tagging a band with its nationality is also annoying . Hobbes Goodyear, Greg Fasolino. Iennes (talk) 12:04, 22 January 2017 (UTC)

Mildly support this, for reasons given. On the other hand, it's been "French band" in WP for a dozen years, and the extra info is correct. Would give folks a chance to chime in, but if they don't, no objection to the change. --Hobbes Goodyear (talk) 16:47, 22 January 2017 (UTC)

Since there was no objection, I have moved the page, and added a hatnote to differentiate it from Air (free jazz trio). There's still a redirect from "French band", so those looking for it there will find it.—Anne Delong (talk) 19:35, 6 February 2017 (UTC)

My copy of Moon Safari actually states "French band" on the front of the CD booklet, it's written vertically after the "R" of "AIR"; indeed, the image on our article also does this. On my copy, the words "French band" also appear (horizontally) on the spines of the inlay card, and (vertically) on the CD disc. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 09:37, 6 March 2017 (UTC)

Current version

I've put instead this ["Air is stylized as AIR on their record sleeves"] in the notes at the bottom of the article; So it doesn't appear in the lead anymore. It seems apt as 100% of their album sleeves had got AIR written like this, 90% of their singles has got AIR like this. "all their sleeves are reproduced here". Iennes (talk) 17:34, 11 February 2017 (UTC)

You've been told not to engage a wheel war, be it on fr or here. Please don't push your own pov. You've been blocked for this kind of behaviour on .fr already. --Koui² (talk) 23:15, 17 February 2017 (UTC)

Koui2's refusal to explain his point of view shows that he is in pure obstruction. On this talk, administrator Anne has already asked Koui2 to stop his reverts. This is his first message and he still doesn't reply and carries on bringing discussion on from a fr wiki. Iennes (talk) 23:25, 17 February 2017 (UTC)

Rfc

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

Which version has to appear in the notes: a) "Often stylized as AIR" or b) "Sometimes stylized as AIR"? 100% of their albums and 90% of their singles stylize AIR in capitals, all their sleeves are all reproduced on this wp:reliable source which is Allmusic [4]. From 1998, all their sleeves (albums, cd-singles, 7inchs, dvds) have been showing AIR.- Iennes (talk) 17:58, 27 February 2017 (UTC)

Votes

• I vote for the version a) with Often. - Iennes (talk) 18:13, 27 February 2017 (UTC)
• Even the band's official website doesn't systematize AIR. Using sometimes would be far more realistic. --Koui² (talk) 13:31, 28 February 2017 (UTC)

  No it would not, as the design of AIR on their website is in capitals. The text on their website with Air in italics is written by a webmaster. Iennes (talk) 21:26, 28 February 2017 (UTC)

  So what? Even though this was the case, you probably agree that any content or formal decision involving the band's name must get its approval. --Koui² (talk) 14:16, 13 March 2017 (UTC)

• I have no axe in this dispute, but it has been going on for far too long with far too little discussion. Accordingly, I have removed the disputed phrase, and protected the page against further edit-warring (for which two people were recently blocked). I would like to see sensible discussion here, leading to a consensus upon which you both agree. The protection on the article will expire at the same time that this WP:RFC expires, and I expect to see sensible behaviour upon that expiry. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 23:49, 5 March 2017 (UTC)
• Often - based on often and sometimes, "often" seems like the correct choice. Worth noting, they capitalize it on their facebook page. The French page uses "sometimes". Argento Surfer (talk) 13:41, 7 March 2017 (UTC)

  The French page also has a dispute regarding that phrase, involving the same two people. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 19:23, 7 March 2017 (UTC)

  Looking into it further, I'm revising my opinion to Sometimes. None of these reviews capitalize it, and the band's album art is irrelevant. We don't write it METALLICA... Argento Surfer (talk) 16:36, 8 March 2017 (UTC)

That's not the point, there isn't any artwork in a review, didn't know that listeners were buying reviews instead of records with sleeves and design. Iennes (talk) 17:04, 8 March 2017 (UTC)

Should we alter the Metallica page then? And all the films that capitalize their titles, like The Matrix and Iron Man? Their albums all show it in caps. And, as pointed out above, their webpage doesn't always use all caps. You point out that it's done by a "webmaster", but surely the band would alert him if they disapproved? Argento Surfer (talk) 17:22, 8 March 2017 (UTC)

it is a bad comparison, Metallica has got a logo like every metal band like Motorhead, Acdc... The font of Air's name is never the same from one record to another BUT it is always in capitals since they have released "Sexy Boy" and their debut album Moon Safari. Iennes (talk) 17:18, 13 March 2017 (UTC)

• Sometimes. I don't remember ever seeing it capitalized in music writing. Chilton (talk) 12:13, 8 March 2017 (UTC)

maybe it is because you do not own any of their records. Iennes (talk) 13:59, 8 March 2017 (UTC)

• Sometimes is far more prudent and remains accurate while avoiding editorializing. Greg Fasolino (talk) 21:13, 8 March 2017 (UTC)
• Often. The bot sent me. With that much in the sources stylizing them as AIR, often is correct. SW3 5DL (talk) 20:20, 12 March 2017 (UTC)

• @SW3 5DL:, you did notice that the only sources mentioned showing it as AIR were "album art" and "part of their website", right? Argento Surfer (talk) 12:32, 13 March 2017 (UTC)

Argento, have you got one album of them, if you do you'll see the design, have you ever seen them live once promoted by a poster with their name in italics? All their posters, promo material write their name in capitals. You did notice, right ?Iennes (talk) 17:09, 13 March 2017 (UTC)

Yes, I'm aware of the logo design. Have you seen all the posters and promo material for the movie Iron Man? It's always written in capitals. Should we add a note to that article that Iron Man is sometimes stylized as IRON MAN? You're confusing logo and graphic design with actual print material. Argento Surfer (talk) 17:34, 13 March 2017 (UTC)

in case you haven't noticed, music is not played by actors, it is composed by musicians and the film industry is a completely different business. Iennes (talk) 20:28, 13 March 2017 (UTC)

I've seen actors play music in movies. Argento Surfer (talk) 12:52, 14 March 2017 (UTC)

• Sometimes - or maybe exclude it entirely? I agree with Argento Surfer that this seems to be strictly, or mostly, a graphic design decision. One thing no one seems to have pointed out is that, on most of their album covers, the album name is capitalized as well. I don't see a "stylized as 'MOON SAFARI'" on the Moon Safari article. Korny O'Near (talk) 22:05, 14 March 2017 (UTC)
• Neither, I say disregard the information completely. The band's official webpage address uses lowercase letters (on the tab label name), whereas for instance KISS uses all capital letters on the internet tab-label once the page has loaded on their page. A reversed example of this would be that most bands use a capitalized letters format for their album titles/band logo. This doesn't necessarily mean that the band name should be stylized here on Wikipedia. --DisneyMetalhead (talk) 01:02, 28 March 2017 (UTC)
• Redrose64 the rfc is over: could you close this ? thanks. Iennes (talk) 23:52, 8 April 2017 (UTC)

  I filed a request at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Requests for closure#Talk:Air (band)#Rfc. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 08:06, 9 April 2017 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:16bit (band) which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 16:31, 6 February 2018 (UTC)

Requested move 28 July 2018

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Not moved, per consensus here and also precedent set at Talk:The Ghost (Faroese band)#Requested move 28 July 2018  — Amakuru (talk) 19:26, 7 August 2018 (UTC)

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Air (band) → Air (duo) – Not a band per WP:BANDDAB. The editor whose username is Z0 17:02, 28 July 2018 (UTC)

• Support per nom. bd2412 T 01:26, 29 July 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose This is a duo of electronic musicians. They play electronic musical instruments. Chubbles (talk) 01:52, 29 July 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose as proposed. WP:BANDDAB says "Use either '(band)' or '(duo)' when the musical ensemble is a duet." It does not deprecate the use of "(band)" in these cases. Dekimasuよ! 02:23, 29 July 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose the guidance on WP:BANDDAB says "Use either '(band)' or '(duo)' when the musical ensemble is a duet." Maybe we should remove the (duo) option as it adds nothing In ictu oculi (talk) 07:59, 29 July 2018 (UTC)
• Comment - a band makes it more imprecise because there could be 2 to an infinite number of members whereas duo shows there is only 2 members in the group. A band is defined as "a group of instrumentalists playing music of a specialized type". This music group is a duo of electronic musicians who are not instrumentalists (players of a musical instrument). In popular culture, a band is typically a group of 4-5 people who sing, play the guitar, drums, bass, etc. Calling a group of 2 musicians a band is simply inaccurate and improper although literally they could fit the scope. @Chubbles: @Dekimasu: @In ictu oculi: please consider reconsidering. Not only (duo) makes it easier to categorize music groups consisting of 2 members, it also distinguishes electronic music groups from regular music groups. The editor whose username is Z0 08:07, 29 July 2018 (UTC)

• 1) To this point, I think everyone has been fairly accepting of the fact that you filed 30 individual move requests instead of a multimove. However, please understand that it's annoying to get over 30 page notifications for the same comment–and then getting 30 edit conflicts after you edit the comment with the ping in it. If the issues at hand are the same, please pick one talk page and have the rest of the discussion there.

2) There is nothing inaccurate or improper about calling a band with two members a band. Musical ensemble#Two parts: "Examples of two-member bands are Japandroids, Local H, Pet Shop Boys, Hella, Flight of the Conchords, Death from Above 1979, Francis Xavier, I Set My Friends On Fire, Middle Class Rut, The Pity Party, Little Fish, The White Stripes, Big Business, Two Gallants, Lightning Bolt, The Ting Tings, The Black Box Revelation, Satyricon, The Black Keys, Tenacious D, Simon and Garfunkel, Hall & Oates, Johnossi, The Pack A.D., Air Supply and Royal Blood. When electronic sequencers became widely available in the 1980s, this made it easier for two-member bands to add in musical elements that the two band members were not able to perform. Sequencers allowed bands to pre-program some elements of their performance, such as an electronic drum part and a synth-bass line. Two-member pop music bands such as Soft Cell, Blancmange, Yazoo and Erasure used pre-programmed sequencers." In fact, this shows why it is easier to have two-person bands when electronic music is involved. As Chubbles stated, electronic music is music made using electronic musical instruments. It isn't necessary to require a band to be analog.

3) The proposal referenced a particular naming convention, but the moves do not follow from that naming convention. Dekimasuよ! 08:27, 29 July 2018 (UTC)

• Comment. Reply to Dekimasu: I'm not saying a two-member band is incorrect but it's just less preferred compared to duo. Musical ensemble#Two parts says two-member rock and pop bands are relatively rare and they are mostly rock and pop groups not electronic music duos that are the subjects of these move discussions. Wikipedia's preference is usually the one most commonly used. Bands play musical instruments unlike electronic musicians who use digital audio workstation (DAW) to produce their music. DAW is not a musical instrument but a computer software. As for the naming convention, it did say to use either "(band)" or "(duo)" when the musical ensemble is a duet, as in duo for the duet and band for others. That precisely supports my argument so I'm not sure why you said "the moves do not follow from that naming convention". The editor whose username is Z0 08:49, 29 July 2018 (UTC)
• Comment the discussion for the general issue of whether electronic duos are accurately described as bands seems to be coalescing at Talk:The Ghost (Faroese band). Chubbles (talk) 10:45, 29 July 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose per Dekimasu and In ictu oculi. We don't have to change every instance of "(band)" to "(duo)" where the band has two people in it just to be specific. Ss112 16:55, 29 July 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose. No policy or guideline-based reason to make this change. Seems to be that nom just doesn't like it. I actually think that "band" should be preferred over "duo", as it makes it clear that it is a musical thing, as opposed to coemdy or something else. --Hobbes Goodyear (talk) 17:25, 29 July 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose. Since the guideline allows either band or duo, the question must turn to our reliable sources to see what they say. Many sources call Air a duo, for instance Westword, The 405, Under The Radar, SF Chronicle and WaPo. Fewer call Air a band, for instance The Guardian. Most sources use both terms: Loud And Quiet, SMH, AllMusic, NY Post, Stereogum, LA Daily News, SF Weekly, LA Times, UK Telegraph, Irish Times, SJ Mercury News, Sound On Sound and Pitchfork, with the artists themselves using band the most often. They describe how their music is played on tour by more than the two main musicians, for instance drummer Joey Waronker, who they say is "like a member of the band."[5] The net result for me is band. Binksternet (talk) 05:46, 6 August 2018 (UTC)

Discussion

See Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (music)/Disambiguation#"band" preferred to "duo". Andrewa (talk) 01:15, 6 August 2018 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion:

• Air 2.jpg

You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 13:21, 25 June 2019 (UTC)

Bibilography?

Hello folks, I've removed the "bibliography" section because the only book/website cited in it was Jim Derogatis' "Milk It". Well I happen to have said book and there is literaly NOTHING about the band! They're not even mentioned on the index! Maybe I'm missing something, but why the devil was the book cited in the first place? If I'm in the wrong, please do let me know, but as Wiki asks their users to be bold, I've taken it out myself. --Sickboy3883 (talk) 14:02, 23 September 2020 (UTC)

Interesting - pinging User:Derek R Bullamore, who added this, but I agree that taking it out seems a good idea under these circumstances. Regards, HaeB (talk) 03:54, 24 September 2020 (UTC)

Very interesting - although I can not disagree with the edit summary, I have never heard of this publication - so where that came from I have no idea ! It was three and a half years ago so.... The removal is fine by me. - Derek R Bullamore (talk) 10:16, 24 September 2020 (UTC)

Dangling ref

I have located a dangling ref and hidden it, replacing it with a citation needed tag. This has been done because we have a reference pointing to a source that is not recorded in the article. Please feel free to contact me if you need assistance fixing this. - Aussie Article Writer (talk)

Requested move 12 October 2022

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved per request with Air (band) becoming a redirect to Air (disambiguation)#Groups. Favonian (talk) 20:34, 19 October 2022 (UTC)

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Air (band) → Air (French band) – Air (jazz rock band) American band, and also Air (free jazz trio) also American. In ictu oculi (talk) 19:02, 12 October 2022 (UTC)

• Support the French band has 7,763 views but the jazz band has 483 and the trio has 167[[6]] probably not enough for a PDAB. Crouch, Swale (talk) 20:37, 12 October 2022 (UTC)
• Weak support per nom, although perhaps genre is a better disambiguator?--Ortizesp (talk) 01:06, 13 October 2022 (UTC)
• Support per nomination; Crouch, Swale and Ortizesp. Air (band) is incomplete disambiguation and should redirect to Air (disambiguation)#Groups. —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 03:22, 13 October 2022 (UTC)
• Support per nom and Crouch, Swale. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 19:18, 14 October 2022 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.