Talk:Grover Cleveland Alexander

Name

"Grover Cleveland" was not his real name, Pete was, therefore it is only proper that the nickname appear in quotes...yes? vudu 23:48, 25 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Grover Cleveland is his real name, after the president. 'Pete' is the nickname.User:Varitek

Can you validate that? I've seen references going either way. vudu 16:08, 26 Nov 2003 (UTC)

[1] [2] [ http://z.lee28.tripod.com/sbnslegends/id24.html]. I don't believe I've ever seen anything suggesting that Grover Cleveland was the nickname. Varitek 00:24, 27 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Well, color me red. I stand corrected. Thanks for the validation. vudu 04:02, 27 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Honored Americans Project

Can anyone check out the Honored Americans project at Talk:George Washington?? Is this person an honor of Grover Cleveland?? Calmypal is gone, and somebody needs to start putting more in. No one has added Grover Cleveland in this project yet; can anyone do so?? 66.245.86.226 15:36, 5 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Drink and Lazzeri

It's often written thay Alexander had been drinking in the bullpen when called upon to strike out Lazzeri. Is there any documentary evidence for this legend? -- GWO

I've read that myself, although I don't know where. I'll look into it. Darwin's Bulldog 07:02, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

Granted epilepsy was little known or understood during Old Pete's career, it was cruel at the time to assume he was drunk or hung over, and it is an insult to the intelligence of the average baseball maven to assert that the seasoned manager Rogers Hornsby would be foolish enough to substitute Haines with Alexander, if Old Pete HAD been on the sauce or sleeping one off. (It's an insult to Hornsby too.) I think there's some Frank Merriwell-type wishful thinking involved here, by people who want to believe that a half-drunk pitcher could subdue Lazzeri as Alex did. Incidentally, "Poosh 'Em Up" Lazzeri was an epileptic himself! Nobody called HIM a drunkard. Dougie monty (talk) 05:44, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

Times were different then, but you're right, Hornsby wouldn't have taken the risk if he thought Alex was too hung over or whatever. This is off the track a bit, but in the 2001 Series, when Game 6 winner Randy Johnson came trudging in from the bullpen to relieve Schilling in Game 7, to a historian it was like deja vu, back to 1926. I think Johnson was cold sober, though, as surely he knew there was a possibility of being called in... as, I would think, Alex knew in 1926 also. There are all kinds of stories of ballplayers excelling while hung over (Ruth was famous for it). It might be that their headache just forces them to concentrate all the more. Sometimes pain can be distracting, other times it can make you focus. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} 06:02, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

WikiProject class rating

This article was automatically assessed because at least one article was rated and this bot brought all the other ratings up to at least that level. BetacommandBot 16:33, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

why was he named after Grover Cleveland?

Why? Kingturtle (talk) 21:36, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

I don't know that I've ever seen an explanation, and since it was 1887, no one's talking. However, Cleveland was a popular President (maybe even in Nebraska), and parents were known for naming their kids after public figures. Some ballplayers that come to mind are George Washington Bradley, Abraham Lincoln Bailey, William Jennings Bryan Herman, and Jack Roosevelt Robinson (who was named for Teddy, not Franklin). Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} 05:58, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

There is likely no primary source that can tell us why he was called "Grover Cleveland," outside of him being born during the first term of the US President of the same name. In fact, given the time "Pete" was born, 1887, no primary sources may exist to exactly determine Mr. Alexander's exact first name. At the time, there were likely no birth, baptismal, or conformation records that can confirm his exact name. This is a common problem in American geneology prior to the early 20th century.

All we know is, when he signed his contract he (or his parents) stated that his name was "Grover Cleveland Alexander," but somehow before he every played baseball, people normally called him "Pete." —Preceding unsigned comment added by Squonk64 (talk • contribs) 21:52, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

The article should probably reference Grover Cleveland, as some people are not aware of the 22/24th president. It seems unlikely that the name was common or a random event.Geo8rge (talk) 21:06, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

It already does, and has so for at least a year. It's down in the "Names/Nicknames" section, as it's not important enough to be in the lead. He had no connection with Grover Cleveland other than the name. I have relatives named after Presidents. It was not unusual in the olden days. In fact, if you look at findagrave.com, you'll see several others from that era with the exact same name as the hall-of-famer, so no doubt there were many kids named for Cleveland. FYI, I checked both ancestry.com and findagrave.com, and there is no direct evidence posted for a birth certificate. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 22:45, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

1911 LOC Grover Cleveland "Pete" Alexander Photo

There is a nice picture of "Pete" on the Library of Congress's FLICKR page. See Grover Cleveland Alexander. But being a newbie at Wikipedia, I don't know about Wiki formatting (I know CSS, HTTP, PHP, but Wiki??) so I will let the experts decide if the photo is worthy and, maybe, add the photo to "Pete's" page.

I particularly like the picture because it shows "Pete," in his rookie season, wearing a 1911 Phillies sweater over his regular uniform. It seems the sweater had bold, thinly spaced "pinstripes," almost a seersucker pattern, 39 years before the Phils debuted the pinstripe uniform in 1950. But then again, it may be an effect created by the black and white photo on a highly textured cloth.

I will also post the pictures in Wikimedia, if I can figure that out. The picture is free of copyright because it is more than 75 years old, owned by the United States Government, etc. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Squonk64 (talk • contribs) 21:50, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

Grandfather was Glover Cleveland's Catcher in Nebraska

During the early 1900's Glover Cleaveland Alexander played on Town Baseball teams in Central Nebraska. My Grandfather Lloyd Matthew Cox was Glover Cleveland's Catcher. They played ball and drank, they were game for anything. While they were in a small town playing a "Town team", a Scout from St. Louis was in the bleachers to watch Cleveland pitch. After the game was over he approached Grover Cleveland, said he'd like to have Grover Cleveland come and pitch in St. Louis....... GROVER CLEVELAND, laughed and said "Hell Boys, I can make more money working on the railroad ! As the dealing went on Cleaveland told the Scout, the only way I'd go is that you'd have to take my Catcher Lloyd Matthew Cox from Central City, Nebraska........ The Scout wasn't getting anywhere. When the Scout talked decided talk to my Grandfather,(he was a hell of an athlete I was told by my Uncles and Mother) Grandpa "Laughed at them and said, Boys, I can make more money working for the Railroad. History knows that Glover Cleveland did go to St. Louis, and did win the Series for St. Louis. In the stands were my Grandfather, Grandmother, my Mother and her three brothers, Glover Cleveland had sent the Lloyd Cox family tickets for the Series.

Walt Doty (61 yr old Grandson,of Lloyd Cox, Council Bluffs, Ia.) My Grandfather was one that was always messing around setting up Boxing matches, Baseball game etc. in Council Bluffs, Iowa during the early 1900's. He retired from Union Pacific RR in 1955 after 50 yrs service in Council Bluffs. I heard he was a "hell of an Alhlete W. Doty III —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.168.218.201 (talk) 00:57, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

Drafted or volunteered?

Can anyone show a reliable source of him being drafted during World War I? My book says he volunteered. They are most certainly not the same thing. :) Rockfang (talk) 20:47, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

N.L. Record for Wins

I believe that Christy Mathewson's win total (last win in 1916) was incremented by historical research in the 1940s or 1950s: some sports writer (maybe Joe Reichler) found a game in which he should have been credited with the win but was not, and official record was eventually amended from 372 wins to 373. (The same sort of thing as with Hack Wilson's 191st RBI in 1930.)

This would suggest that after his 373rd win, in 1929, Alexander was considered the all-time National League leader, and Mathewson only "caught up" via the historical correction.

I'd read one Alexander bioghraphy -- I think it was in one of Bill James' The Baseball Book volumes -- that painted a picture of old Alex laboring throughout 1930 to break the tie without success. But if the facts are as I stated, this would be nonsense.

This would certainly be a good thing to add to the article (as well as Mathewson's). Did contempoprary accounts credit Alexander with the record for several decades? WHPratt (talk) 13:23, 8 July 2010 (UTC)

When Alex got his 373rd win, writers at the time thought he had broken Mathewson's career record. It was apparently 1946 before Matty's figure was changed to 373. As noted here [3] Alex pitched in 9 games in 1930 and was apparently released by the Phillies after his May 28th game, so he didn't really labor "throughout 1930". It might be fair to say he labored throughout 1929, when he went 9-8 for the Cardinals, and according to The Scrapbook History of Baseball, contemporary accounts say that when he got number 373, on August 10, 1929, it broke Mathewson's record of 372. In fact, he got that win in relief, and had only one more game that season, a week later.[4] Mathewson, of course, was unaware of all this discussion, having died in 1925. I found this item [5] that says Mathewson's career total was upped to 373 in 1946. They say the extra win came in 1902. I don't see where it identifies that game, but from the career summary cited, I would guess it was the May 21 game, as Mathewson was brought into relieve in the late innings and gave up the tying run, nullifying Taylor's decision under current rules. However, the official scorer might have awarded Taylor the win anyway, on the grounds that he pitched more effectively. More research needed. :) ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 13:57, 8 July 2010 (UTC)

Bingo. Go to page 25 of this item [6] and read all about it. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 14:03, 8 July 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for doing the actual work. I'm glad that we were able to get that on the record. WHPratt (talk) 16:22, 8 July 2010 (UTC)

I added a quick point to the article where it talks about his wins record. Someone can elaborate and/or post citations if they want to. :) ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 17:53, 8 July 2010 (UTC)

Earliest mention of Old Pete nickname

I was able to track down an earlier mention of his nickname that what was cited in his page, in the Chicago Tribune on 17 Apr 1926. No article that I found explained why it was his nickname. BMW (talk) 19:40, 10 August 2019 (UTC)

References

"Cut his career short"

It says that "drinking cut his career short" when he pitched his last season in 1930. The man was born in 1887 and pitched until he was 43 years old, how can you say his career was cut short? Pitching with epilepsy, PTSD and drinking to numb it, i'd say he had one of the greatest careers for longevity in history, really. Christy Matthewson couldnt even stand a little bit of fatal mustard gas complications to keep playing, much less keep pitching at a high level. Yes, that last comment is sarcastic but it does put into frame the kind of things they were dealing with.

Seems very silly. Ba18070 (talk) 23:50, 31 March 2023 (UTC)