Talk:Kyiv Pechersk Lavra

Choice of infobox template

Side by side comparison of the two infoboxes
Geobox Building	Infobox building
{{Geobox|Building}}	Kyiv Pechersk Lavra Києво-Печерська лавра View of the Kiev Pechersk Lavra General information Type National Historic-Cultural Sanctuary / Monastery Architectural style Ukrainian Baroque Location Pechersk Raion, Kiev Town or city Kiev City Country Ukraine Coordinates 50°26′3″N 30°33′33″E Opened Cave monastery Design and construction Architect(s) Theodosius of Kiev Website lavra.ua UNESCO World Heritage Site Official name Kiev: Saint Sophia Cathedral and Related Monastic Buildings, Kiev Pechersk Lavra Criteria i, ii, iii, iv Reference 527 Inscription 1990 (14th Session)

There is a discussion at Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2018 November 8#Template:Geobox/type/building about whether the template used in the infobox of this article should be deleted.

In my opinion the Geobox|Building template has produced a better result than the Infobox building. Toddy1 (talk) 10:02, 11 November 2018 (UTC)

{{Geobox}} version

{{Geobox|Building}}

{{Infobox church}}

Kyiv Pechersk Lavra
Києво-Печерська лавра
View of the Kiev Pechersk Lavra
50°26′3″N 30°33′33″E
Location	Pechersk Raion, Kiev
Country	Ukraine
Website	Official website
History
Dedication	Monastery of the caves
Architecture
Architect(s)	Theodosius of Kiev, Anthony of Kiev
Style	Ukrainian Baroque
Years built	1051
Administration
Diocese	Ukrainian Orthodox Church
UNESCO World Heritage Site
Official name	Kiev: Saint Sophia Cathedral and Related Monastic Buildings, Kiev Pechersk Lavra
Location	Europe
Criteria	i, ii, iii, iv
Reference	527
Inscription	1990 (14th Session)

@Toddy1:much of the same here as with Saint Sophia's Cathedral, Kiev. For transparency I'm going to include the same feedback here.

• I currently don't have the Government or Leader values listed in the new version because I'm not really sure what they represent. Who is leader here? Is (s)he the Archbishop? The Bishop? The Provost, Dean, etc. Leader is vaugue, lets figure out exactly who they are and then put that name under the proper parameter (see {{Infobox church}}
• Same thing goes for Government. I don't think Government really applied here. That parameter is on Geobox from when it was used for settlements. I don't feel that this has any significance on a church.
• The "area" measurement doesn't really work here. The area of what? The whole church? The grounds? The floor area? {{Infobox Church}} has {{{floor area}}}. If we can confirm an area measurement that is the floor area, then it should be included, but area in general was never intended for a structure. Area is for a geographical region. (Again this is one of the many issues with {{Geobox}} and why it is going away).
• Landmarks was intentionally removed. This isn't information that belongs in the infobox (another one of the many reasons Geobox is going away).
• Lastly some of the dates have been removed. The way the dates are laid out in the Geobox is rather confusing anyway. Take a look at {{Infobox church}}. There are a number of supported dates in the infobox. Any other dates belong not in the infobox, but in the article itself. I'm not saying that the information is irrelevant to the article! Just that it doesn't belong in the infobox.

If you could look this over and give your feedback that would be great! Please {{ping}} me in your response to make sure I see it. Thanks! --Zackmann (^{Talk to me}/_{What I been doing}) 04:56, 16 November 2018 (UTC)

@Zackmann08: Thanks. I will consider this (and the infobox on the other article) on Sunday/Monday. Kiev Pechersk Lavra is a collection of buildings and has a courtyard in the centre - I think that is why the old infobox quoted the area. I assume that you have not been there. Toddy1 (talk) 10:40, 16 November 2018 (UTC)

@Toddy1: I absolutely have NOT been there, no. lol. But to be honest, that isn't really relevant here. The infobox should reflect the global consensus for information displayed, not just what those who have visited it think should be shown. That being said, as a local (I'm guessing??) you definitely have some insight that will be important here. --Zackmann (^{Talk to me}/_{What I been doing}) 17:23, 16 November 2018 (UTC)

@Toddy1: any update here? Been a week since you reverted the edit. I've tried to address all your concerns but haven't really heard anything back. --Zackmann (^{Talk to me}/_{What I been doing}) 23:43, 18 November 2018 (UTC)

@Toddy1: I am going ahead and implementing the change. Been trying for a week to work with you and no response. If you have additional concerns, feel free to post them here. Obviously more information can be added to the infobox if there is stuff missing. {{Geobox}} is deprecated for buildings so there is no reason to keep it here. --Zackmann (^{Talk to me}/_{What I been doing}) 20:30, 19 November 2018 (UTC)

Edit conflict over a wikilink to Ukrainian Orthodox Church (Moscow Patriarchate) and mention of Onufriy (Berezovsky)

There is an edit conflict concerning this revision.[1], which concerns a wikilink to Ukrainian Orthodox Church (Moscow Patriarchate) and mention of Onufriy (Berezovsky).

@UkrainianSavior1 and Eduardogobi: Please can you provide citations to reliable sources to back up what you say. I could not see how the citation provided by Eduardogobi backed up his version - perhaps it was the wrong page. Toddy1 (talk) 06:37, 10 December 2019 (UTC)

Dear @Toddy1: you're indeed correct, the citation did not clarify who is the “Metropolitan of Kiev and All Ukraine” mentioned. Therefore, another citation from the Lavra has been added to the article. Thank you. ―Eduardogobi (talk) 14:20, 12 December 2019 (UTC)